Free Throw violation

[Coach Bill]

I wanted to post on the other thread but it's closed for some reason. Here's the OP:

"Had my son in law ask me about a sits at his wreck league game the other night, dont know if I know the answer... A2 is on the free throw line to shoot a 1 and 1. The official tosses the ball to A2 who dribbles twice and then takes aim, as he does B5 walks from the arch area and enters a free lane space. A2 looks at the ref and says "aren't you going to call that?" The ref shruggs his shoulders and A2 tosses the ball back to the official. Does tossing the ball back constitute a shot or attempt or would it be a delay violation on A2 for not shooting? There are so many ways I can 2nd guess myself on this any help ............ would help???????????????

When B5 violated, shouldn't the ref had immediately extended his arm signaling a delayed violation? The OP states that the ref just shrugged his shoulders. That's probably why the shooter was confused why the ref wasn't calling it. Every situation I've been in, where the ref is going to let a violation go, he asks for the ball back, and then re-administers, and that could be why the player tossed it back.

[Smitty]

Whether the official put his arm out with a fist to indicate a delayed violation or not, tossing the ball back to the official was a pretty dumb thing to do. I would consider this a violation and B would have the ball out of bounds for a throw-in on the end line.

[Coach Bill]

Why would B have the ball out-of-bounds?

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

A2 is on the free throw line to shoot a 1 and 1. The official tosses the ball to A2 who dribbles twice and then takes aim, as he does B5 walks from the arch area and enters a free lane space. A2 looks at the ref and says "aren't you going to call that?" The ref shruggs his shoulders and A2 tosses the ball back to the official.

It's not a violation until the try is unsuccessful. There was nothing to call & if the official didn't ask for the ball back, then the player should've shot the ball.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

Why would B have the ball out-of-bounds?

Because if I'm standing where I'm supposed to be standing during a free throw when the shooter has the ball, I am out of bounds, and when he tosses the ball to me he is essentially throwing the ball out of bounds. End of his shot. B gets the ball for a throw-in where I'm standing.

Now, if I had my arm out indicating a delayed violation, now we have a double violation, so we'd go to the arrow and whoever has the arrow will get the ball for a throw-in.

[jritchie]

It is WRECK LEAGUE RIGHT? Probably a do over, haha!

[TravelinMan]

CH1 is so right. Player did not know rule. If he had shot and missed, ref would have blown whistle then and he would have gotten a substitute free throw attempt. Also player's comment to ref smacks of disrespect and hmmmmmm how about an apology from the player.

[Indianaref]

Simultaneous free throw violation. Go to the AP. Unless you felt that the Free Throw shooter was disconcerted.

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Because if I'm standing where I'm supposed to be standing during a free throw when the shooter has the ball, I am out of bounds, and when he tosses the ball to me he is essentially throwing the ball out of bounds. End of his shot. B gets the ball for a throw-in where I'm standing.

Now, if I had my arm out indicating a delayed violation, now we have a double violation, so we'd go to the arrow and whoever has the arrow will get the ball for a throw-in.

I was wondering if you were ignoring the violation by B, which is sounds like you are. Is this is another Rec ball thing? Most posters clarify NFHS, NCAA, NBA, etc..., but it sounds like we need to add another league called "Wreck" where some rules are optional and the refs don't hustle.

[Smitty]

I was simply responding to the situation in your OP - where the official does not have his arm out. If I didn't see the player take the space for some reason, I might not have my arm out. Keep in mind that as lead, I am not responsible for all of the players in all of the lane spots - my partner is responsible for some of them, so he may have his arm out and I might not. It depends on which one of us has the responsibility for the player who violates. If I see it, I will have my arm out. Regardless, the shooter should never ever toss the ball to me unless I have asked for it.

Personally, I would never let the lane space violation go - rec league or not - if I see it, I will have my arm out.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

....and the refs don't hustle.

Ah, there it is. You got your shot in Coach. WHACK

[Adam]

Player may or may not know what the arm out means. He should, however, know that a defensive violation gives him a free shot. He relinquishes this, however, by committing his own violation (ending his attempt without touching the rim or making the basket.)