Clock reads 0:00

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

The period is not complete until you have a horn regardless of 0:00 on the clock...unfortunately without 10ths of a second on the clock you are left to your judgement to determine if they can get the shot off...just like the old days...

Except that he does have the 10th's on the control module and does know that there are 0.5 seconds remaining....enough time to get off a catch-n-shoot.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Except that he does have the 10th's on the control module and does know that there are 0.5 seconds remaining....enough time to get off a catch-n-shoot.

Are you suggesting that we use the information from the control module to enforce the 3/10's rule, even if it's NOT displayed on the game clock?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Are you suggesting that we use the information from the control module to enforce the 3/10's rule, even if it's NOT displayed on the game clock?

Why wouldn't you? If you have definite knowledge based on the control module as to how much time is actually left, you can certainly use that to determine if a catch and shoot scenario is possible. Are you saying that if you saw 0.2 seconds on the control module, you would still allow a catch and shoot?

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Why wouldn't you? If you have definite knowledge based on the control module as to how much time is actually left, you can certainly use that to determine if a catch and shoot scenario is possible. Are you saying that if you saw 0.2 seconds on the control module, you would still allow a catch and shoot?

Well if you read 5-2-5 it says the 3/10ths rule does not apply if the scoreboard does not display 10ths of a second so your point above moot....that said it is an interesting point and if I knew that there were 2/10ths I would probably not allow a catch and shoot (and would hope that the operator is on point and starts the clock on time so I get a horn!), but according to the rule I should not even consider it....which is a good reason to not even look at the module if it is not on the board, don't tempt yourself with knowledge you shouldn't have!

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Well if you read 5-2-5 it says the 3/10ths rule does not apply if the scoreboard does not display 10ths of a second so your point above moot....that said it is an interesting point and if I knew that there were 2/10ths I would probably not allow a catch and shoot (and would hope that the operator is on point and starts the clock on time so I get a horn!), but according to the rule I should not even consider it....which is a good reason to not even look at the module if it is not on the board, don't tempt yourself with knowledge you shouldn't have!

I'm pretty sure that the intent of the stated rule was for scoreboards which have control modules that also don't display 10th of a second. Using common sense, if the control module DOES show 10ths of seconds, why wouldn't you use that information? You certainly can use that information to determine whether a catch and shoot is possible. If you don't use that information, then you are not using good common sense.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I'm pretty sure that the intent of the stated rule was for scoreboards which have control modules that also don't display 10th of a second. Using common sense, if the control module DOES show 10ths of seconds, why wouldn't you use that information? You certainly can use that information to determine whether a catch and shoot is possible. If you don't use that information, then you are not using good common sense.

Like I said I would probably use it, but what happens if you have an operator who is a hair slow in getting the clock started and you are blowing your whistle before the horn goes off? You would be stuck justifying a rule that technically doesn't exist in the situation given. The 3/10ths rule just gives us an automatic out when we have it available, but does that mean that it is absolutely without a doubt impossible to catch and shoot in 3/10ths or less?

Originally Posted by slow whistle

The 3/10ths rule just gives us an automatic out when we have it available, but does that mean that it is absolutely without a doubt impossible to catch and shoot in 3/10ths or less?

By rule, yes...

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Like I said I would probably use it, but what happens if you have an operator who is a hair slow in getting the clock started and you are blowing your whistle before the horn goes off? You would be stuck justifying a rule that technically doesn't exist in the situation given. The 3/10ths rule just gives us an automatic out when we have it available, but does that mean that it is absolutely without a doubt impossible to catch and shoot in 3/10ths or less?

The reason the rule exists is because a study was done and it showed that it's not possible for a player to catch and get off a shot in .3 seconds or less. So therefore, yes, it is impossible for it to happen. And so if you have a clock that doesn't show 10ths on the scoreboard, but does show 10ths on the console, if you see that there are .3 seconds or less, you cannot allow a catch and shoot whether the clock operator starts the clock late or not. If someone attemoted a catch and shoot in that situation, you would immediately signal no shot and blow the whistle to end the quarter if the clock operator is late starting the clock. If there are more than .3 seconds, you have to use your best judgment whether a shot gets off before the expiration of time.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I'm pretty sure that the intent of the stated rule was for scoreboards which have control modules that also don't display 10th of a second. Using common sense, if the control module DOES show 10ths of seconds, why wouldn't you use that information? You certainly can use that information to determine whether a catch and shoot is possible. If you don't use that information, then you are not using good common sense.

It might be "common sense", but it's wrong. The consoles had 1/10s before the scoreboards did (or, at least there were plenty of places that had such consoles without having the corresponding scoreboard).

Good coaches would ask about the "console time" in the last second, or so (socreboard shows 0:00), to determine if they had time to pass and shoot (console indicates, say, 0:00.9) or just catch and shoot (console indicates 0:00.4) after a throw-in.

The rule about "tap only" applies only if the scoreboard shows 1/10s -- it doesn't matter what the console shows.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It might be "common sense", but it's wrong. The consoles had 1/10s before the scoreboards did (or, at least there were plenty of places that had such consoles without having the corresponding scoreboard).

Good coaches would ask about the "console time" in the last second, or so (socreboard shows 0:00), to determine if they had time to pass and shoot (console indicates, say, 0:00.9) or just catch and shoot (console indicates 0:00.4) after a throw-in.

The rule about "tap only" applies only if the scoreboard shows 1/10s -- it doesn't matter what the console shows.

Would be clearer if 5-2-5 substituted "scoreboard" for "clock"...by saying "clock" you leave open just such a situation where the clock module shows the 10ths but the scoreboard does not....

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It might be "common sense", but it's wrong. The consoles had 1/10s before the scoreboards did (or, at least there were plenty of places that had such consoles without having the corresponding scoreboard).

Good coaches would ask about the "console time" in the last second, or so (socreboard shows 0:00), to determine if they had time to pass and shoot (console indicates, say, 0:00.9) or just catch and shoot (console indicates 0:00.4) after a throw-in.

The rule about "tap only" applies only if the scoreboard shows 1/10s -- it doesn't matter what the console shows.

So you're saying if the home team is ahead by 1 point with .2 seconds on the console (no tenths on the scoreboard, but you know there are only .2 seconds on the console) and the visiting team has a throw-in with a catch and shoot and the timer is a fraction of a second late in starting the clock, and the shot goes in, you would count the basket?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I'm pretty sure that the intent of the stated rule was for scoreboards which have control modules that also don't display 10th of a second. Using common sense, if the control module DOES show 10ths of seconds, why wouldn't you use that information? You certainly can use that information to determine whether a catch and shoot is possible. If you don't use that information, then you are not using good common sense.

Then how would anybody know how many 10th's of a second remained?

The way the rule is written it must be addressing venues where the modules shows 10th's but the scoreboard doesn't.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Then how would anybody know how many 10th's of a second remained?

The way the rule is written it must be addressing venues where the modules shows 10th's but the scoreboard doesn't.

You've never seen a scoreboard that doesn't show 10ths and neither does the console? That's why no one would know how many tenths are left and therefore why you couldn't know if there was .3 seconds or not - therefore the rule.

I don't see how you could come to the conclusion in your second sentence. It just makes no sense whatsoever to me that if you know there are .2 seconds left based on the console, you wouldn't use that information.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Are you suggesting that we use the information from the control module to enforce the 3/10's rule, even if it's NOT displayed on the game clock?

Absolutely. It doesn't say scoreboard, it says clock.

Rule 6-2 When play is resumed with a throw-in or free throw and 3/10 (.3) of a second or less remains on the clock, no field goal may be scored by a try for goal. In this situation a tap could score.
NOTE: This rule does not apply if the clock does not display tenths of a second.

The "clock" is actually in the box on the table. The scoreboard is just one of possibly many displays showing how much time is on the clock. The display on the control module is another such display. The rule doesn't specify where the 10ths need to be displayed...just that they are displayed. If any display shows 10ths, then the 10ths are displayed and are to be used.

Additionally, the note about "not displaing tenths" exists simply to say that the 3/10ths rule doesn't apply when the official can't know the precise amount of time remaining....it is not intended to require that all displays show the precise information.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Absolutely. It doesn't say scoreboard, it says clock.

Rule 6-2 When play is resumed with a throw-in or free throw and 3/10 (.3) of a second or less remains on the clock, no field goal may be scored by a try for goal. In this situation a tap could score.
NOTE: This rule does not apply if the clock does not display tenths of a second.

The "clock" is actually in the box on the table. The scoreboard is just one of possibly many displays showing how much time is on the clock. The display on the control module is another such display. The rule doesn't specify where the 10ths need to be displayed...just that they are displayed. If any display shows 10ths, then the 10ths are displayed and are to be used.

Additionally, the note about "not displaing tenths" exists simply to say that the 3/10ths rule doesn't apply when the official can't know the precise amount of time remaining....it is not intended to require that all displays show the precise information.

I could buy that interpretation, however, I think the statement is completely irrelevant then. Doesn't it go without saying that if there is no idea how many 10ths are left then you can't apply a rule that is based on 10ths of a second?