Clock reads 0:00

[jdmara]

Had a situation on Sunday I was uncertain of at a men's league game at the local rec center (which surprisingly was enjoyable, good group of guys). Anyways, in the final seconds of the first half Team A makes a basket and Team B quickly calls timeout. Both my partner and I whistle for the timeout and look up at the clock to see 0:00 (without the buzzer sounding). Unfortunately, the scoreboard at the rec center does not display tenths of a second in the fleeting moments of the final minute, however, the scoreboard module does. The time on the module reads 0:00.5.

5-2-5

ART. 5 . . . When play is resumed with a throw-in or free throw and three-tenths (.3) of a second or less remains on the clock, a player may not gain control of the ball and try for a field goal. In this situation only a tap could score.
NOTE: This rule does not apply if the clock does not display tenths of a second.

I don't quite know how to interpret the note in 5-2-5. Does that mean that if the clock reads 0:00, the period is complete? Or does that mean a player may gain control of the ball and try for a field goal as long as their release is completed before the buzzer sounds? My intuition is that the period is completed once the clock reads 0:00 but I'm, honestly, uncertain. Unfortunately the 2008-2009 casebook does not address this situation. This probably is because the clocks are suppose to display tenths of a second.

Thanks Gentleman!

-Josh

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by jdmara

Had a situation on Sunday I was uncertain of at a men's league game at the local rec center (which surprisingly was enjoyable, good group of guys). Anyways, in the final seconds of the first half Team A makes a basket and Team B quickly calls timeout. Both my partner and I whistle for the timeout and look up at the clock to see 0:00 (without the buzzer sounding). Unfortunately, the scoreboard at the rec center does not display tenths of a second in the fleeting moments of the final minute, however, the scoreboard module does. The time on the module reads 0:00.5.



I don't quite know how to interpret the note in 5-2-5. Does that mean that if the clock reads 0:00, the period is complete? Or does that mean a player may gain control of the ball and try for a field goal as long as their release is completed before the buzzer sounds? My intuition is that the period is completed once the clock reads 0:00 but I'm, honestly, uncertain. Unfortunately the 2008-2009 casebook does not address this situation. This probably is because the clocks are suppose to display tenths of a second.

Thanks Gentleman!

-Josh

The period is not complete until you have a horn regardless of 0:00 on the clock...unfortunately without 10ths of a second on the clock you are left to your judgement to determine if they can get the shot off...just like the old days...

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

The period is not complete until you have a horn regardless of 0:00 on the clock...unfortunately without 10ths of a second on the clock you are left to your judgement to determine if they can get the shot off...just like the old days...

Agreed.

[jdmara]

Thanks gentleman. Unfortunately my memory is about as long as {insert witty commenter here}. I couldn't remember how it used to be done.

-Josh

[Back In The Saddle]

NFHS 5-6-2: "ART. 2 . . . Each quarter or extra period ends when the signal sounds indicating time has expired."

NCAA 5-7-2: "Art. 2. Each period shall end when the red light or LED lights has become activated. When the light fails to operate or is not visible, each period shall end with the sounding of the game-clock horn.
a. In games when the red light is not present, the game-clock horn shall terminate players’ activity."

I could tell you a dreadful and boring story about how I own this rule, but I'll spare you. Now you own it too.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

I could tell you a dreadful and boring story about how I own this rule, but I'll spare you.

Already?

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

NFHS 5-6-2: "ART. 2 . . . Each quarter or extra period ends when the signal sounds indicating time has expired."

NCAA 5-7-2: "Art. 2. Each period shall end when the red light or LED lights has become activated. When the light fails to operate or is not visible, each period shall end with the sounding of the game-clock horn.
a. In games when the red light is not present, the game-clock horn shall terminate players’ activity."

I could tell you a dreadful and boring story about how I own this rule, but I'll spare you. Now you own it too.

I would love to hear a story

I've actually officiated a game in which the clock operator stopped the clock (on a whistle) at the exact same time as the clock expired. This situation resulted in 0:00.0 on the clock without a horn. In fact we were astonished that when we "started" the clock on the touch (after the in-bounds) the horn did not sound. Freak accident but it's possible, I guess. Does that mean we should still be playing since we didn't hear the horn? Just kidding guys, but it really did happen.

-Josh

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

The period is not complete until you have a horn regardless of 0:00 on the clock...unfortunately without 10ths of a second on the clock you are left to your judgement to determine if they can get the shot off...just like the old days...

Except that he does have the 10th's on the control module and does know that there are 0.5 seconds remaining....enough time to get off a catch-n-shoot.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Except that he does have the 10th's on the control module and does know that there are 0.5 seconds remaining....enough time to get off a catch-n-shoot.

Are you suggesting that we use the information from the control module to enforce the 3/10's rule, even if it's NOT displayed on the game clock?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Are you suggesting that we use the information from the control module to enforce the 3/10's rule, even if it's NOT displayed on the game clock?

Why wouldn't you? If you have definite knowledge based on the control module as to how much time is actually left, you can certainly use that to determine if a catch and shoot scenario is possible. Are you saying that if you saw 0.2 seconds on the control module, you would still allow a catch and shoot?

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Why wouldn't you? If you have definite knowledge based on the control module as to how much time is actually left, you can certainly use that to determine if a catch and shoot scenario is possible. Are you saying that if you saw 0.2 seconds on the control module, you would still allow a catch and shoot?

Well if you read 5-2-5 it says the 3/10ths rule does not apply if the scoreboard does not display 10ths of a second so your point above moot....that said it is an interesting point and if I knew that there were 2/10ths I would probably not allow a catch and shoot (and would hope that the operator is on point and starts the clock on time so I get a horn!), but according to the rule I should not even consider it....which is a good reason to not even look at the module if it is not on the board, don't tempt yourself with knowledge you shouldn't have!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Are you suggesting that we use the information from the control module to enforce the 3/10's rule, even if it's NOT displayed on the game clock?

Absolutely. It doesn't say scoreboard, it says clock.

Rule 6-2 When play is resumed with a throw-in or free throw and 3/10 (.3) of a second or less remains on the clock, no field goal may be scored by a try for goal. In this situation a tap could score.
NOTE: This rule does not apply if the clock does not display tenths of a second.

The "clock" is actually in the box on the table. The scoreboard is just one of possibly many displays showing how much time is on the clock. The display on the control module is another such display. The rule doesn't specify where the 10ths need to be displayed...just that they are displayed. If any display shows 10ths, then the 10ths are displayed and are to be used.

Additionally, the note about "not displaing tenths" exists simply to say that the 3/10ths rule doesn't apply when the official can't know the precise amount of time remaining....it is not intended to require that all displays show the precise information.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Absolutely. It doesn't say scoreboard, it says clock.

Rule 6-2 When play is resumed with a throw-in or free throw and 3/10 (.3) of a second or less remains on the clock, no field goal may be scored by a try for goal. In this situation a tap could score.
NOTE: This rule does not apply if the clock does not display tenths of a second.

The "clock" is actually in the box on the table. The scoreboard is just one of possibly many displays showing how much time is on the clock. The display on the control module is another such display. The rule doesn't specify where the 10ths need to be displayed...just that they are displayed. If any display shows 10ths, then the 10ths are displayed and are to be used.

Additionally, the note about "not displaing tenths" exists simply to say that the 3/10ths rule doesn't apply when the official can't know the precise amount of time remaining....it is not intended to require that all displays show the precise information.

I could buy that interpretation, however, I think the statement is completely irrelevant then. Doesn't it go without saying that if there is no idea how many 10ths are left then you can't apply a rule that is based on 10ths of a second?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Absolutely. It doesn't say scoreboard, it says clock.

Rule 6-2 When play is resumed with a throw-in or free throw and 3/10 (.3) of a second or less remains on the clock, no field goal may be scored by a try for goal. In this situation a tap could score.
NOTE: This rule does not apply if the clock does not display tenths of a second.

The "clock" is actually in the box on the table. The scoreboard is just one of possibly many displays showing how much time is on the clock. The display on the control module is another such display. The rule doesn't specify where the 10ths need to be displayed...just that they are displayed. If any display shows 10ths, then the 10ths are displayed and are to be used.

Additionally, the note about "not displaing tenths" exists simply to say that the 3/10ths rule doesn't apply when the official can't know the precise amount of time remaining....it is not intended to require that all displays show the precise information.

Camron,
You are failing to follow the sound advice of "always listen to Bob!"

The tenths need to be on the visible game clock, which is the one that can be seen by the players during the game. The console at the table doesn't meet that requirement.

According to 1-15 your official clock has to be a visible game clock.

[Back In The Saddle]

I could go with that interp...

IF we make sure that both teams also know how much time is left on the clock. IF only the officials are privy to that information, it's unfair to the teams to use it.