Clock reads 0:00

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Are you suggesting that we use the information from the control module to enforce the 3/10's rule, even if it's NOT displayed on the game clock?

Absolutely. It doesn't say scoreboard, it says clock.

Rule 6-2 When play is resumed with a throw-in or free throw and 3/10 (.3) of a second or less remains on the clock, no field goal may be scored by a try for goal. In this situation a tap could score.
NOTE: This rule does not apply if the clock does not display tenths of a second.

The "clock" is actually in the box on the table. The scoreboard is just one of possibly many displays showing how much time is on the clock. The display on the control module is another such display. The rule doesn't specify where the 10ths need to be displayed...just that they are displayed. If any display shows 10ths, then the 10ths are displayed and are to be used.

Additionally, the note about "not displaing tenths" exists simply to say that the 3/10ths rule doesn't apply when the official can't know the precise amount of time remaining....it is not intended to require that all displays show the precise information.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Absolutely. It doesn't say scoreboard, it says clock.

Rule 6-2 When play is resumed with a throw-in or free throw and 3/10 (.3) of a second or less remains on the clock, no field goal may be scored by a try for goal. In this situation a tap could score.
NOTE: This rule does not apply if the clock does not display tenths of a second.

The "clock" is actually in the box on the table. The scoreboard is just one of possibly many displays showing how much time is on the clock. The display on the control module is another such display. The rule doesn't specify where the 10ths need to be displayed...just that they are displayed. If any display shows 10ths, then the 10ths are displayed and are to be used.

Additionally, the note about "not displaing tenths" exists simply to say that the 3/10ths rule doesn't apply when the official can't know the precise amount of time remaining....it is not intended to require that all displays show the precise information.

I could buy that interpretation, however, I think the statement is completely irrelevant then. Doesn't it go without saying that if there is no idea how many 10ths are left then you can't apply a rule that is based on 10ths of a second?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Absolutely. It doesn't say scoreboard, it says clock.

Rule 6-2 When play is resumed with a throw-in or free throw and 3/10 (.3) of a second or less remains on the clock, no field goal may be scored by a try for goal. In this situation a tap could score.
NOTE: This rule does not apply if the clock does not display tenths of a second.

The "clock" is actually in the box on the table. The scoreboard is just one of possibly many displays showing how much time is on the clock. The display on the control module is another such display. The rule doesn't specify where the 10ths need to be displayed...just that they are displayed. If any display shows 10ths, then the 10ths are displayed and are to be used.

Additionally, the note about "not displaing tenths" exists simply to say that the 3/10ths rule doesn't apply when the official can't know the precise amount of time remaining....it is not intended to require that all displays show the precise information.

Camron,
You are failing to follow the sound advice of "always listen to Bob!"

The tenths need to be on the visible game clock, which is the one that can be seen by the players during the game. The console at the table doesn't meet that requirement.

According to 1-15 your official clock has to be a visible game clock.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Camron,
You are failing to follow the sound advice of "always listen to Bob!"

The tenths need to be on the visible game clock, which is the one that can be seen by the players during the game. The console at the table doesn't meet that requirement.

According to 1-15 your official clock has to be a visible game clock.

Rule 1 SECTION 15 CLOCK AND SCOREBOARD
A visible game clock and scoreboard are mandatory.

Requiring that a clock be visible in no way precludes the use of other, smaller, displays of the same clock (in the console) for more accurate information. It only establishes that at least one "visible" clock must exist.

By what rule do you exclude use of the console display? Does the console display the time left on the clock/game or not? Are you saying the clock on the console is invisible?

In fact, define "visible". I can see the console from 100ft. away....it may not be legible from that far, but it is visible.

Remember that any situation where <=0.3s is relevant will start with a deadball and the clock stopped: a throwin, FT, or, in a ridiculously extreme sequence of events, a jump ball. This is easily a situation where the exact amount of time can be determined and, if necessary, communicated.

[icallfouls]

OK, so now I have to get together with my partners and see if they had any information to give about the time on the clock. My partners say .4, the clock operator looks down, starts leaning on his buzzer to alert us to the fact that his clock says .2 Now what?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

OK, so now I have to get together with my partners and see if they had any information to give about the time on the clock. My partners say .4, the clock operator looks down, starts leaning on his buzzer to alert us to the fact that his clock says .2 Now what?

Where did your partners get their information?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

OK, so now I have to get together with my partners and see if they had any information to give about the time on the clock. My partners say .4, the clock operator looks down, starts leaning on his buzzer to alert us to the fact that his clock says .2 Now what?

Huh?

BTW, I'm with Camron.

A school buys a new console that has tenths but the scoreboard doesn't. The scoreboard shows 0:00 but the horn hasn't sounded. The console shows .2 seconds remaining. Even though you have definite knowledge that .2 remains, you're going to ignore that and guess whether a successful shot is good or not, rather than immediately waving it off.

There's no way you're going to make me believe you're going to count the basket when you know there's .2 left. That's just plain dumb.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

BTW, I'm with Camron.

A school buys a new console that has tenths but the scoreboard doesn't. The scoreboard shows 0:00 but the horn hasn't sounded. The console shows .2 seconds remaining.
There's no way you're going to make me believe you're going to count the basket when you know there's .2 left.

I'm for all this, also, but as BITS suggested above, we should certainly notify the coaches of the .2, agreed?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I'm for all this, also, but as BITS suggested above, we should certainly notify the coaches of the .2, agreed?

I would hope so. I'm quite sure there's going to be some discussion since the clock says 0:00.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Huh?

BTW, I'm with Camron.

A school buys a new console that has tenths but the scoreboard doesn't. The scoreboard shows 0:00 but the horn hasn't sounded. The console shows .2 seconds remaining. Even though you have definite knowledge that .2 remains, you're going to ignore that and guess whether a successful shot is good or not, rather than immediately waving it off.

There's no way you're going to make me believe you're going to count the basket when you know there's .2 left. That's just plain dumb.

That's exactly what I'm going to do. I'm going to judge whether or not the try is released prior to the horn. I'm going to handle this play in the same way that we did before the .3 rule came into NFHS play.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

By what rule do you exclude use of the console display?

Camron, check out 2-4-2.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That's exactly what I'm going to do. I'm going to judge whether or not the try is released prior to the horn. I'm going to handle this play in the same way that we did before the .3 rule came into NFHS play.

Good luck explaining that over legalistic ruling to your assigner and state association. That just ain't smart and not supported by rule. You have the game timing device and definite knowledge as to how much time is ion the clock. Gotta be smarter than that. Otherwise, you look like .

Have at it, fellas. I've added my $.02.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

By what rule do you exclude use of the console display?

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Camron, check out 2-4-2.

Nevada, I'm not sure, but are you agreeing with Camron? 2-4-2 simply states the officials designate the "official timepiece" and official timer prior to the game. I would think the timepiece is the piece of equipment the timer controls during the game. In almost all gyms I've been in, the timer doesn't sit up on the wall, controlling the timepiece on the wall, but rather at the table, controlling the timepiece that sits there. The thing on the wall is simply a display, which happens to be attached to the official timepiece. In the rules, I believe it is called the visible game clock, not the official timepiece.

I've been in gyms where on one side of the gym the scoreboard/clock is new and shows tenths, while the scoreboard/clock on the other side is the old one, and does not show tenths. So, it is possible to have tenths information one place, and not another. Having it at the table, on the console (yet another display connected to the official timepiece) is just another example of that. Sure, it makes our job a little harder, but I don't see how we cannot use that display to determine things such as time has expired, or whether a shot can be attempted.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Huh?

BTW, I'm with Camron.

A school buys a new console that has tenths but the scoreboard doesn't. The scoreboard shows 0:00 but the horn hasn't sounded. The console shows .2 seconds remaining. Even though you have definite knowledge that .2 remains, you're going to ignore that and guess whether a successful shot is good or not, rather than immediately waving it off.

There's no way you're going to make me believe you're going to count the basket when you know there's .2 left. That's just plain dumb.

What to do if you don't have a tiemout before the last second play, and therefore no opportunity to go to the table to check the 10ths left on the console? Are you going to make a point to walk over to the table to check the console? Or are you saying you will use the 10ths on the console only if you have an opportunity to check, ie a timeout?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

What to do if you don't have a tiemout before the last second play, and therefore no opportunity to go to the table to check the 10ths left on the console? Are you going to make a point to walk over to the table to check the console? Or are you saying you will use the 10ths on the console only if you have an opportunity to check, ie a timeout?

The rule only applies if the clock is stopped -- so there's always an opportunity to check (before the FT, or before the throw in)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

What to do if you don't have a tiemout before the last second play, and therefore no opportunity to go to the table to check the 10ths left on the console? Are you going to make a point to walk over to the table to check the console? Or are you saying you will use the 10ths on the console only if you have an opportunity to check, ie a timeout?

If you have the clock stop showing 0:00, no horn, and continue to play; you're going to have at least one coach wonder why. You won't need to make it a point to go to the table, your presence will be required.