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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 01, 2008, 12:26pm
Lighten up, Francis.
 
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Arrow oops!

A held ball is called and the AP arrow favors Team A. The officials mistakenly award the ball to Team B. B1 releases the throw-in pass and the ball is immediately kicked by A1. The table then informs the officials that Team A should have had the last throw-in. What happens next?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 01, 2008, 12:36pm
Ch1town
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"We made a mistake coach (Team A) but you get 2 of the next 3 arrows"
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Old Wed Oct 01, 2008, 12:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch1town View Post
"We made a mistake coach (Team A) but you get 2 of the next 3 arrows"

Ch1town:

Wrong answer, see my post immediately below yours.

MTD, Sr.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 01, 2008, 12:54pm
Ch1town
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That's right, I remember the big deal last year about a kick on a AP throw-in. The next throw-in is for the violation & the team retains the arrow. So yeah the throw-in never ended & can still be corrected. Thanks MTD!
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Old Wed Oct 01, 2008, 01:59pm
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Here's a twist, let's have a double foul during the throwin mistakenly given to team B.

Now what?
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 01, 2008, 02:19pm
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Shew...I think there is a rule book calling may name tonight...time to read up again on CE

-Josh
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Old Wed Oct 01, 2008, 02:24pm
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It won't be under CE. This is one you'll need to combine some things for.
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Old Wed Oct 01, 2008, 02:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
It won't be under CE. This is one you'll need to combine some things for.
It's time to look at CE again anyways, along with the rest of the rulebook

-Josh
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 01, 2008, 02:59pm
Ch1town
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Here's a twist, let's have a double foul during the throwin mistakenly given to team B.

Now what?
Ok, double fouls go to POI unless there is no team control (throw-in) in which case we'd go to the arrow.
But wait a minute... the arrow hadn't switched because the throw-in (to the wrong team) hadn't ended yet. It seems logical to fix the mistake here & give it to Team A.

Or better yet, don't %#&* it up to begin with!
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Old Wed Oct 01, 2008, 03:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch1town View Post
Ok, double fouls go to POI unless there is no team control (throw-in) in which case we'd go to the arrow.
But wait a minute... the arrow hadn't switched because the throw-in (to the wrong team) hadn't ended yet. It seems logical to fix the mistake here & give it to Team A.

Or better yet, don't %#&* it up to begin with!
POI goes to arrow if there is no team control or throwin, so you can't go to the arrow here.
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Old Wed Oct 01, 2008, 03:05pm
Lighten up, Francis.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch1town View Post
double fouls go to POI unless there is no team control (throw-in) in which case we'd go to the arrow.
Double fouls ALWAYS go to the POI. It's just that sometimes the POI is the AP arrow.
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Old Wed Oct 01, 2008, 03:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
Double fouls ALWAYS go to the POI. It's just that sometimes the POI is the AP arrow.
A throwin is not one of those times, though.
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Old Wed Oct 01, 2008, 07:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Here's a twist, let's have a double foul during the throwin mistakenly given to team B.

Now what?

Snaqs:

You are just plain evil with a capital "E", .

Since the double foul was committed before the throw-in ended the AP Arrow will not be reversed; that is the easy part.

NFHS rules: There IS NO team control during a throw-in; therefore, Team A will receive the ball for an AP Throw-in per NFHS R6-S4-A3g.

BUT NCAA rules: There IS team control during a throw-in. The double foul is a Point-of-Interruption (POI) with the penalty being a throw-in by the team in control of the ball nearest the spot where the ball was at the time of the double foul. Even though Team B had team control of the ball during the throw-in, the officials' mistake of giving the ball to Team B for the AP Throw-in is correctable (by rule) and therefore, the POI is the AP Throw-in by Team A. Team A would receive the ball for a throw-in nearest the spot of the ball at the time of the double foul and Team A would retain the AP Arrow for the next AP Throw-in.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. Snaqs rather than evil, your play is actually kinky, : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lj056ao6GE (about 15 seconds into the video).
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 03:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Snaqs:

You are just plain evil with a capital "E", .

Since the double foul was committed before the throw-in ended the AP Arrow will not be reversed; that is the easy part.

NFHS rules: There IS NO team control during a throw-in; therefore, Team A will receive the ball for an AP Throw-in per NFHS R6-S4-A3g.

BUT NCAA rules: There IS team control during a throw-in. The double foul is a Point-of-Interruption (POI) with the penalty being a throw-in by the team in control of the ball nearest the spot where the ball was at the time of the double foul. Even though Team B had team control of the ball during the throw-in, the officials' mistake of giving the ball to Team B for the AP Throw-in is correctable (by rule) and therefore, the POI is the AP Throw-in by Team A. Team A would receive the ball for a throw-in nearest the spot of the ball at the time of the double foul and Team A would retain the AP Arrow for the next AP Throw-in.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. Snaqs rather than evil, your play is actually kinky, : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lj056ao6GE (about 15 seconds into the video).
You got the administration under NFHS rules correct, but for the WRONG reason. You forgot that step B in the POI process gives the ball to a team if the stoppage occurred during a throw-in or the team is entitled to a throw-in. So that's the POI, not the AP arrow. Following the double foul DURING the throw-in, Team A is still entitled to an AP throw-in from before and the official can still fix the mistake of awarding the ball to the wrong team. So give the ball to Team A for an AP throw-in under 4-36-2b and 7.5.2 Sit A.

Your ruling for NCAA is incorrect because Team A would not retain the arrow following the official fixing the previous mistake and giving them their entitled AP throw-in.
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 08:02am
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For NevadaRef's eyes and anybody else who wants to read it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
You got the administration under NFHS rules correct, but for the WRONG reason. You forgot that step B in the POI process gives the ball to a team if the stoppage occurred during a throw-in or the team is entitled to a throw-in. So that's the POI, not the AP arrow. Following the double foul DURING the throw-in, Team A is still entitled to an AP throw-in from before and the official can still fix the mistake of awarding the ball to the wrong team. So give the ball to Team A for an AP throw-in under 4-36-2b and 7.5.2 Sit A.

Your ruling for NCAA is incorrect because Team A would not retain the arrow following the official fixing the previous mistake and giving them their entitled AP throw-in.

NevadaRef:

NFHS: We are both correct. R4-S35-A1 defines what is a POI. R4-S36-A2c and R6-S4-A3g state the same thing: How the ball shall be put into play for a double foul when there is no team control when the foul occured.

NCAA: I am going to have to research what you have said, but it is 09:00amEDT and I have a 09:30amEDT at the H.S. for a delivery to the football stadium's concession stand. I will get back to you later.

Ta ta.

MTD, Sr.
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