Ramifications for requesting too many timeouts

[Adam]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Now why would you even think of compounding the problem and adding to the frustration of you and so many others? You're going to prolong the game and not teach the kids right from wrong (although the other coach is doing nothing "technically wrong" by rule) - let it go and take the high ground. Besides, who knows what the refs at this level might do? (nothing against them, just a question as I don't know the level of official).

Curious, I'm not following your logic.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

The thing I'm most interested in, is developing these kids, getting them to work on their games.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Curious, I'm not following your logic.

Snaq's as a coach too, my thought process was - if a coach (adult) constantly did this, what is the lesson he is teaching the kids? Why would a coach do this? What purpose would it serve? As was stated, wouldn't these actions turn the game into farse? The OP specifically says he wants to "develop these kids." I just don't feel these types of coaching actions would be along those lines. JMO

[Adam]

I'm not sure I see the problem. The rules allow for excessive timeouts at the cost of a T. He's not doing anything unethical here.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm not sure I see the problem. The rules allow for excessive timeouts at the cost of a T. He's not doing anything unethical here.

Yeah, but he could turn the game into a travesty if he is just trying to be indifferent by continuously calling timeouts when he clearly does not have one. I do not think we should be encouraging that behavior and assume that others might not have a problem with it. And the referee in any game has the right to rule on anything not specifically covered in the rules.

Peace

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yeah, but he could turn the game into a travesty if he is just trying to be indifferent by continuously calling timeouts when he clearly does not have one. I do not think we should be encouraging that behavior and assume that others might not have a problem with it. And the referee in any game has the right to rule on anything not specifically covered in the rules.

Peace

But this is specifically covered. A team can call time outs in excess of their allotted, at the cost of a team technical foul. The official is required, by rule, to grant it. The referee, by rule, is also allowed to forfeit a game if the coach is making a travesty of it. I'm not sure where any part of this situation isn't covered by specific rules?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

But this is specifically covered. A team can call time outs in excess of their allotted, at the cost of a team technical foul. The official is required, by rule, to grant it. The referee, by rule, is also allowed to forfeit a game if the coach is making a travesty of it. I'm not sure where any part of this situation isn't covered by specific rules?

The rule covers a situation with the expectation that a team makes a mistake and requests an extra timeout. I do not think the rule covers a coach purposely calling a timeout in excess because he is ticked off at the other coach or a rule.

Peace

[Back In The Saddle]

I would agree that the intent of the rulesmakers was not to facilitate this kind of abuse by a coach. However, the rule is pretty clear:

(NFHS 5-12-2) Time-outs in excess of the allotted number may be requested and shall be granted during regulation playing time or any extra period at the expense of a technical foul for each.

Same in college:

(NCAA 5-15-1) Art. 1. Timeouts in excess of the allotted number may be requested and shall be granted at the expense of an administrative technical foul charged to the offending team for each taken and (women) loss of possession of the ball.

I don't see an option to ignore the timeout request for any reason, malicious or otherwise. Shall is a pretty iron-clad rulebook word.

The rules do allow for forfeiting the game if it becomes a travesty.

To me that gives pretty comprehensive rules coverage for this situation. It may not be ideal coverage, but it is comprehensive.

What exactly do you propose the referee rule on that isn't covered?

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Snaq's as a coach too, my thought process was - if a coach (adult) constantly did this, what is the lesson he is teaching the kids? Why would a coach do this? What purpose would it serve? As was stated, wouldn't these actions turn the game into farse? The OP specifically says he wants to "develop these kids." I just don't feel these types of coaching actions would be along those lines. JMO

The purpose served would be to get my kids to break a sweat. Grunewar - since you're a coach, would you be interested in playing a game where the kids run up and down the court five times, have halftime, run up and down the court 5 times, and then shake hands and go home?

I'm exaggerating a little, but it was like that, with all the subs and free throws.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

The purpose served would be to get my kids to break a sweat. Grunewar - since you're a coach, would you be interested in playing a game where the kids run up and down the court five times, have halftime, run up and down the court 5 times, and then shake hands and go home?

I'm exaggerating a little, but it was like that, with all the subs and free throws.

Coach Bill - I certainly appreciate your predicament and don’t know how I would react in your shoes. I’d sure as heck be frustrated too. I just don’t believe I would use your tactic.

I ref in one rec league with a running clock and ref and coach in another with 5/6/7 min quarters (depending on the age) and I like the running clock better for many reasons.

One of the biggest problems I’ve had as a ref in the leagues is teams not honoring the “you must play a quarter” or “five straight minutes” rule. Refs are specifically instructed not to get involved with these admin rules (other than to warn) as we have other issues to concern ourselves with – we instruct the offended coach to take it up with the league.

As a coach, I would probably let the game run its course, maybe say something to the coach after the game, and take it up with the league…..and hope we don’t play that team later in the yr or repetitively over the yr – as then your season would really be bad if he continues this tactic.

PS – IMO, this pales in comparison to the coach who instructs his team to pick up the full court press and keep it on when their up by 30 points and there is no mercy rule.

Good luck!

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by grunewar

One of the biggest problems I’ve had as a ref in the leagues is teams not honoring the “you must play a quarter” or “five straight minutes” rule. Refs are specifically instructed not to get involved with these admin rules (other than to warn) as we have other issues to concern ourselves with – we instruct the offended coach to take it up with the league.

There is a 6th grade coach in our CYO Division who feels the playing time rule (players must appear in at least 2 quarters, but no more than 3 in a regulation game) doesn't apply. The first time we played them, he claimed he couldn't follow it because he only had 8 players. Of course I have an index card showing how it can be done with as little as 7 players.

But this is one of my peeves, too. If the shoe was on the other foot, these same teams would be asking us why we were ignoring the rules. {/soapbox}

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

The first time we played them, he claimed he couldn't follow it because he only had 8 players. Of course I have an index card showing how it can be done with as little as 7 players.

Thus the username Stat-Man ???

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Curious, I'm not following your logic.

You saved me some typing.........and agree on your follow up.