Moderators

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

JMHO, but I just don't see it as such a big deal. (And not because I'm a prime participant. I'm not.) Once there's real basketball to talk about, we'll talk about it, with only minor sidetracks.

Yup. And it's also nobody's business except Brad Batt's. If he thinks it's a problem, he'll either take some action or give new direction to the mods. It sureashell isn't up to me...or anyone else that's posted in this particular thread...to tell anybody what they can or can't post.

Everybody gets an opinion. That doesn't mean that their opinion is gonna become law.

And personally, I ain't about to change my posting habits. If the mods don't like 'em, they can delete my posts...or me. Shrug.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

I'm still thinkin' about it.

I totally understand. I'm in, for now, but I'm hardly convinced. I suppose it's worth a shot to see what will happen. But if it turns into the NFHS bored, I'll be reverting with a vengeance

May even post some pics.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I happen to think that Snaq's point is perfectly valid. In that particular thread, the question was, "Is there anything wrong with changing shirts, as long as all of the new shirts match?" Once you say no, what else is there to discuss? Notre Dame's green jerseys? How is that any better than a binary joke?

You have read posts where some legitimately honest questions were asked by a younger/newer official and you have graciously sent them down the path of truth. These were possibly questions that, after achieving all your success, you would never think of asking (again).

The point of this thread is to attempt to keep an original subject [e.g., Changing basketball jerseys] open and welcoming, unmarred by such topics as the Notre Dame green jerseys or the biography of the author of the Notre Dame Fight Song.

This forum is top heavy with experienced and clever officials ready to offer advice and direction. All want to write something here or they would be elsewhere. But, because of the cleverness, we sometimes, inadvertently, type a knee-jerk response which deflects an original thread.
That makes it harder to jump in and for that "honest question" to be asked by new folks.

What the forum needs, as does officiating in general, is some newer/younger folks to ask and be answered. Let's make it easier for them.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by mick

You have read posts where some legitimately honest questions were asked by a younger/newer official and you have graciously sent them down the path of truth. These were possibly questions that, after achieving all your success, you would never think of asking (again).

The point of this thread is to attempt to keep an original subject [e.g., Changing basketball jerseys] open and welcoming, unmarred by such topics as the Notre Dame green jerseys or the biography of the author of the Notre Dame Fight Song.

This forum is top heavy with experienced and clever officials ready to offer advice and direction. All want to write something here or they would be elsewhere. But, because of the cleverness, we sometimes, inadvertently, type a knee-jerk response which deflects an original thread.
That makes it harder to jump in and for that "honest question" to be asked by new folks.

What the forum needs, as does officiating in general, is some newer/younger folks to ask and be answered. Let's make it easier for them.

On the flip side, keep in mind that the reason so many accomplished and knowledgeable officials continue to hang out here is not to continue to ask a steady stream of questions. Nor is it an eager desire to answer new people's questions (I'm not suggesting those questions aren't welcome, nor even the lifeblood of a discussion forum, just that nobody logs on each day thinking to him or herself, "Gee, I'll bet I can answer four or five questions before heading out to work.").

It's the community that draws these people here. It is, to a lesser or greater extent, the chance to "hang out" with other really good officials that we don't get in the "real world". We're all still learning, 'tis true. And we're all still learning from each other, and that's a great benefit of being here. But honestly, does any of us sign on with a single-minded determination to engage in another "study session" on the forum? Or do you come at least as much to see "what's happening" as well as talk basketball?

I wasn't being flip when I said earlier, "It is what it is." Any community is more or less the sum of it's members, but is not any one of them. It draws people because it is better to be a member than to not. But it is not and never will be exactly what any one of us wishes it were. It's always a compromise.

This entire discussion has been about what one member wants this place to be, and why can't we all just conform to his view of the world? With all due respect to Tony, and I do respect him a ton, why is he here complaining about why this board isn't conducted and moderated to his view of the world. He's got a board that he moderates to his standard. Why does he need another? There's a reason I spend 99% of my time here, and 1% there. I like this place 99% better. Apparently I'm not alone.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And personally, I ain't about to change my posting habits. If the mods don't like 'em, they can delete my posts...or me. Shrug.

Frankly, I think that's part of the problem. I think that a reasonable person (reasonable under my definition) would see that certain posts are deleted / edited and make an effort not to make those types of posts. Others seem to think that "I don't need to worry about what I do -- someone else will take care of it."

and, to be clear, I'm not singling out JR here -- there are more than one other poster who springs to the front of my mind when making this post.

I have recently (over the past couple of months or so) began to be more active in moderating the baseball board. that was due more to personal attacks than to OT posts. I could, if desired by most, be a more active moderator here. Certainly my natural inclination / preference would be to have fewer off-topic posts / threads, even if that might mean no new threads at all in a particular day. (There are plenty of other sites I can go to to read mostly stale jokes, for example)

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

This entire discussion has been about what one member wants this place to be, and why can't we all just conform to his view of the world? With all due respect to Tony, and I do respect him a ton, why is he here complaining about why this board isn't conducted and moderated to his view of the world. He's got a board that he moderates to his standard. Why does he need another? There's a reason I spend 99% of my time here, and 1% there. I like this place 99% better. Apparently I'm not alone.

Let's clear a couple of things up.

I'm not the only poster here who is of the opinion that the hijacking of threads is a problem. That's very obvious. I just happen to be the one that brought it up.

I don't have a board.I volunteered to moderate the NFHS board because they were gonna shut the damn thing down. For the NFHS to have to shut down their officials' discussion board because officials couldn't maintain civil discussion was ridiculous.

This hijacking of threads with stale jokes is not a problem on the NFHS board. And it's not because I delete it. It simply isn't posted there. Yes, it's a slower board but it's rare that a thread is hijacked. In fact, the very few issues I have there are from a poster who does the same thing on this site: post inane images that mean nothing to anyone. Interestingly enough, JRutledge and Jurassic Referee have voiced their opinions on the NFHS board that they don't care for those posts either.

So you can think that this is all about me but it's not. I've been here about as long as anyone and can tell you that it hasn't always been this way. I can go away but the problem will still exist.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

This entire discussion has been about what one member wants this place to be, and why can't we all just conform to his view of the world? With all due respect to Tony, and I do respect him a ton, why is he here complaining about why this board isn't conducted and moderated to his view of the world. He's got a board that he moderates to his standard. Why does he need another? There's a reason I spend 99% of my time here, and 1% there. I like this place 99% better. Apparently I'm not alone.

This is really not about one person. There is something going on and it was not like this just a few years ago. I do think right or wrong there are many people that have decided not to come here because of the tone of many of the discussions. When you have to read through a lot of stuff just to get to a solid discussion in this forum it makes people stay away on some level. Now it has not made me go away, but it has changed what and who I read stuff from. And this is not just happening in the off-season. Basketball is a sport that many of us work most of the year and heavily during the summer. This summer seemed to be very slow in comparison. I would never want to suggest this all comes down to the OT posts. I think there are other reasons for that decline, but I think it plays a significant role.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yup. And it's also nobody's business except Brad Batt's. If he thinks it's a problem, he'll either take some action or give new direction to the mods. It sureashell isn't up to me...or anyone else that's posted in this particular thread...to tell anybody what they can or can't post.

Everybody gets an opinion. That doesn't mean that their opinion is gonna become law.

And personally, I ain't about to change my posting habits. If the mods don't like 'em, they can delete my posts...or me. Shrug.

Actually, its everyone's business. Each person should have the courtesy to recognize when their actions are unwelcome and should take the initiative to be a good citizen of the community. No one should feel they have the right to be an *** until someone tells them to stop.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Each person should have the courtesy to recognize when their actions are unwelcome and should take the initiative to be a good citizen of the community.

You've put into words, and I might add, very elegantly, what I've been trying to accomplish this past week regarding images. I don't know why, but I feel better about my decision after reading this post. Thank you.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Actually, its everyone's business. Each person should have the courtesy to recognize when their actions are unwelcome and should take the initiative to be a good citizen of the community. No one should feel they have the right to be an *** until someone tells them to stop.

And who gets to determine whose actions are unwelcome and who a "good citizen of the community" is? You? God?

Sorry, but personally I can't be that presumptuous.

If the owners of this site want to turn it into a vanilla, rules discussions only, blah site like the NFHS site, so be it. No matter where I may post though, I know that I have to follow the site rules. If I don't want to follow the site rules, then I don't get to post. It's that simple. That's the choice given to each and every person that comes to this particular site. If the owners of this site want to change it, hey, that's their right. I can either stay or I can shuffle off into the fading sunset over my beloved Hackensack.

For all the people decrying the foolishness that they get on this particular forum, I have a question. Have you ever considered leaving the zoo and spending a few bucks to join the paid side of this site? After all, it's limited to rules, philosophies and mechanics discussions. Y'all should be in seventh heaven over there. No beisbol, no squirrels, etc. And if you do join, please let me know if you actually learn more over there than you can learn here(with all of our attendant nonsense).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And who gets to determine whose actions are unwelcome and who a "good citizen of the community" is?

In my case, I determined that my actions were unwelcome, and that I was not a good citizen of the community, with some input from several Forum members, including some moderators. Over the past several weeks, the posts criticizing my image posting seemed to get more serious, and less good natured. I decided that I did not want to be viewed as an obnoxious Forum member, so I made my own decision to only post infrequent, on topic images. I thank those that advised me to tone it down.

Also, with the exception of a personal post on the Feast of the Exaltation of the Cross, which I took a chance on getting posted, trying to tie it in to what I call the "Sports Bible Verse" (see signature below), expecting it to be deleted by the moderators, and pleased that the moderators didn't delete until the end of that Sunday, getting me one Personal Message thanking me for the post; I don't recall having any other of my posts deleted by our moderators. They seem to show a lot of restraint, and patience. I think that they do a thankless, but great, job.

I agree with you that it would be unfortunate if this Forum were turned into the NFHS forum. This Forum is much, much, busier, thus providing a lot more information on rules, interpretations, and mechanics, and at the same time, it offers a little bit of fun. Again, I repeat, if anyone knows of a better internet forum on basketball rules, interpretations, and mechanics, that is, better than the Official Forum, please share it with the rest of us.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And who gets to determine whose actions are unwelcome and who a "good citizen of the community" is? You? God?

Sorry, but personally I can't be that presumptuous.

For your posts...you do. For my posts I do.

It is each persons responsibility to be a good citizen. Each must have the consideration and courtesy to analyze their own posts (sometimes with hints) and have the maturity to make adjustments on their own.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If the owners of this site want to turn it into a vanilla, rules discussions only, blah site like the NFHS site, so be it. No matter where I may post though, I know that I have to follow the site rules. If I don't want to follow the site rules, then I don't get to post. It's that simple.

That's the choice given to each and every person that comes to this particular site. If the owners of this site want to change it, hey, that's their right. I can either stay or I can shuffle off into the fading sunset over my beloved Hackensack

That's the problem. It shouldn't come to a point where the owners have to step in to make and enforce rules. In a successful community, the members each do their part to make it better, not be as rogue as they can until the law tells them otherwise.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

For all the people decrying the foolishness that they get on this particular forum, I have a question. Have you ever considered leaving the zoo and spending a few bucks to join the paid side of this site? After all, it's limited to rules, philosophies and mechanics discussions. Y'all should be in seventh heaven over there. No beisbol, no squirrels, etc. And if you do join, please let me know if you actually learn more over there than you can learn here(with all of our attendant nonsense).

No, I don't plan on leaving...I'd rather try to make this place a better place. I have no confidence in the paid side being worth the $$$.

If all the people that insist on a higher quality place were to leave, this place would certainly degrade into r.s.b.c or McGriffs. The Comraderie is certainly welcome and even some good humor and some off-topic content is appreciated. It is only excesses that I "decry" along with attitudes that run off potentially contributing lurkers. And it is truly excess when those sorts of posts far outnumber on-topic items (as has been the case lately).

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Let's clear a couple of things up.

I'm not the only poster here who is of the opinion that the hijacking of threads is a problem. That's very obvious. I just happen to be the one that brought it up.

Okay, fair enough. There are several here who don't care for the level of thread hijacking. Yet they're still here, so it can't be all that bad. BTW, I used to feel the same way, to be honest. I got over it. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Heck, I don't even mind the images, as long as they're family friendly.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I don't have a board. I volunteered to moderate the NFHS board because they were gonna shut the damn thing down. For the NFHS to have to shut down their officials' discussion board because officials couldn't maintain civil discussion was ridiculous.

Kudos to you. Seriously. It's got to be a thankless job. I do value certain parts of the NFHS board. Not the basketball bored, mind you. But certain parts.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

This hijacking of threads with stale jokes is not a problem on the NFHS board. And it's not because I delete it. It simply isn't posted there. Yes, it's a slower board but it's rare that a thread is hijacked. In fact, the very few issues I have there are from a poster who does the same thing on this site: post inane images that mean nothing to anyone. Interestingly enough, JRutledge and Jurassic Referee have voiced their opinions on the NFHS board that they don't care for those posts either.

Hmmm, so basically, people who really just want an all basketball or nothing kind of place...have one? But yet they choose to be here instead, for the most part? I'm sure I must be missing something here.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

So you can think that this is all about me but it's not. I've been here about as long as anyone and can tell you that it hasn't always been this way. I can go away but the problem will still exist.

I'm not trying to be an *** here, I've already agreed to exercise more self restraint. At least on a trial basis. But...

This board is the best of its kind for basketball. It isn't what it once was, that's true (I've been here quite a while now too). A year from now, it won't be what it currently is. Change is the only constant. Yet still, somehow, we have a larger, more vibrant user community here than any other board like it. Including the NFHS board, which seems tailor made for those who would prefer no posts to off topic banter. So, it can't be all that bad.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is really not about one person. There is something going on and it was not like this just a few years ago. I do think right or wrong there are many people that have decided not to come here because of the tone of many of the discussions. When you have to read through a lot of stuff just to get to a solid discussion in this forum it makes people stay away on some level. Now it has not made me go away, but it has changed what and who I read stuff from. And this is not just happening in the off-season. Basketball is a sport that many of us work most of the year and heavily during the summer. This summer seemed to be very slow in comparison. I would never want to suggest this all comes down to the OT posts. I think there are other reasons for that decline, but I think it plays a significant role.

Peace

Here's something you and I both agree on. The "tone of many of the discussions" discourages people from coming here, and those that are here from posting sometimes. I am not talking about the OT posts. I, personally, have taken a page from your book. I can ignore them, choose not to read them, pretend they don't even exist. There's not even anybody on my ignore list.

The tone I'm talking about has to do with the completely uncivil way discusions are conducted as regards officiating philosophies, college mechanics, written rules v. the way things are actually called, etc. It seems that raising such a topic is like waving red flags in front of some of the old bulls on this board. No discussion can take place because those holding "unapproved" opinions are shouted down, drowned out, and driven from the herd. But it's all done in the righteous name of protecting all them newbie lurkers (who must be protected, even though they contribute little if anything to the community) from getting confused. It's true. It's true.

To me, that's a helluva lot more damaging that off-topic posts.

But oddly enough, nobody's talking about that elephant in the room.

That's not too off topic, is it?

[Mark Padgett]

Have you noticed that no one has tried to hijack this thread - yet.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Have you noticed that no one has tried to hijack this thread - yet.

Nope. Not even 1 person. Or 01. Or 0x1. Oh, wait...

Bad, bad, BITS.