Poll: What do you have?

[Odd Duck]

Originally Posted by Tio

Alright Rutledge, I'm calling you out on this one. Why do you feel the need to make this personal? Why can't we just agree to disagree instead of taking shots at guys asking them how "final four careers" are progressing. And pointing out guys that are "struggling for acceptance." Is that information really germane to this conversation?

We all are on the same team here. I think some of us on this board need to remember that officiating is a brotherhood and we need to watch each other's backs. Officiating is a craft, not a science. Which in my book means that what works for one official might not work for the other.

Beause when you make a mistake it is easier to go into attack mode than apologize? Just a guess

I had a fellow official deliver something to me today and aksed his opinion. Just for the record, he is not having trouble with acceptance...at least you would think not since he called the boys state finals last year. His first comment after watching the video...Travel on the move into the lane.

IMO, if that isn't traveling...they should remove it as a violation.

[Adam]

look, Rut's comment was in direct response to a personal shot from mwanr1. Personally, I thought the video card comment was meant in jest; but Rut apparently didn't.

Also, he's got a pretty solid history here of not second guessing officials on the court; especially for no-calls. It's not about being wrong and going on the attack, it's about a natural deference to the officials who were actually taking the heat for their calls; which none of us have to do from the safety of our office chairs.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

look, Rut's comment was in direct response to a personal shot from mwanr1. Personally, I thought the video card comment was meant in jest; but Rut apparently didn't.

Also, he's got a pretty solid history here of not second guessing officials on the court; especially for no-calls. It's not about being wrong and going on the attack, it's about a natural deference to the officials who were actually taking the heat for their calls; which none of us have to do from the safety of our office chairs.

I also did not think my comments were that out of bounds. When you are complaining about how you do not get shots at much varsity and college, it is appropriate to take a stab back at you about your ability to make judgments when you are question my judgment. For what it is worth, I work almost only high school varsity and college ball and I have been doing so for years. And in my opinion this was a common spin move that you see all the time and I do not see definitively when the dribble stopped (which is why it is hard to judge what should be called) and if the right foot was the pivot foot. Now I have not read anywhere of someone saying which was the pivot foot or what they thought was the pivot foot on the tape. All I hear is, "That has to be a travel" rather than the specifics of why the play was illegal. I ask campers why they call things so they understand they are not making calls because it looked like something, but they know it was something. Because when a college supervisor (and I work for some at the high school level) they want very specific answers, not, "I thought it was a travel." And if you are going to be critical of what kind of video player I have (cable modem running at the highest speed) then be prepared for the same comment to come back to you. Ask John McCain that question.

Peace

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And if you are going to be critical of what kind of video player I have (cable modem running at the highest speed) then be prepared for the same comment to come back to you. Ask John McCain that question.

Peace

OK, leave technology alone and stick with officiating... you obvious do nothing all day and night but watch video of yourself officiating.

What does your video player have to do with your cable modem speed?

[Adam]

I have to say I'm surprised at how many feel it's a block. Should have added a 4th option: Unable to tell by video.

My concern is that too many think it's a block for the wrong reasons; "He wasn't set," "he hadn't stopped," etc.

If you don't think he established LGP in time, or that he broke LGP by moving into the shooter, fair enough.

And I'd say the travel call is probably 99% agreed upon here.

I'll add that the white rebounder travelled before his shot as well.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I have to say I'm surprised at how many feel it's a block. Should have added a 4th option: Unable to tell by video.

My concern is that too many think it's a block for the wrong reasons; "He wasn't set," "he hadn't stopped," etc.

If you don't think he established LGP in time, or that he broke LGP by moving into the shooter, fair enough.

Since I watched the initial video probably a dozen times and still couldn't come up with a clear, obvious call, ultimately going with a block just based on experience and instinct, I would not surprised at a fairly even mix of charges vs. blocks from the video alone.

However, I am quite surprised, after the breakdown of the frame-by-frame, that any one still thinks it could be a charge. The frame-by-frame unequivocally shows that the defender was still moving into the shooter's path at least 2 frames after the shooter was airborne. Given that, it can't possibly be a charge. The only counter to it is to wish the video was HDTV quality...but it was, as grainy as it was, sufficient to see what needed to be seen.

[Adam]

Camron, the frame by frame may be clear to some, but it's not to others (including me). It's clear that you and I (and most others here) agree on what it would be if the variables are locked down. I've just seen (and heard during games) too many people say, "He wasn't set," or "he was moving." I've seen it on here, too.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

Seriously, it was just a joke. Chill out Rut: it's only the forum. Don't be so defensive about everything Mr. Sensitive!

Who was upset? Did I see me use a "" or a "" smiley?

No you did not.

If you cannot take getting dirty, do not play in the mud.

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

OK, leave technology alone and stick with officiating... you obvious do nothing all day and night but watch video of yourself officiating.

What does your video player have to do with your cable modem speed?

Where I live we have access to all kinds of video of all kinds of sports of all kinds of plays and situation. One of the people that is on my football crew helped start this trend in my state in football and even in basketball in my state. We review tape of all kinds of plays all the time. And right now I am teaching a football class where we use a lot of video to teach rules and philosophy. And I bought a digital video recorder and I have taped several games I have worked so I can see things I do as well as my partners. Yes, I watch tones of video of others because of the enormous amounts of high school games seen on TV. And I review games I work to see my good and bad mechanics and good and bad calls made by the crew.

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

you are only 35 yrs old and you're having trouble with your memory. When did I ever talk to you about acceptance in my area?

So you are a full time varsity official in your area and have not talked about getting a break on this board?

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Now I have not read anywhere of someone saying which was the pivot foot or what they thought was the pivot foot on the tape. All I hear is, "That has to be a travel" rather than the specifics of why the play was illegal.

When you lift one foot, then return it to the floor, then lift the other foot, then return it to the floor, all while holding the ball firmly in both hands, it doesn't matter which foot was the pivot.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

When you lift one foot, then return it to the floor, then lift the other foot, then return it to the floor, all while holding the ball firmly in both hands, it doesn't matter which foot was the pivot.

When did the dribble end? When was the pivot foot established? All that stuff matters. And it is really hard to tell anything when a player has their back to you the camera and you cannot tell when the player shot the ball and when the other foot touched or did not touch. That was even harder to tell than whether there was contact on the other end.

Let us stop talking about this; we are not going to agree. And I am not really concerned about a travel that was not called and did not seem to matter in this game or even to the person that posted the video.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

When you lift one foot, then return it to the floor, then lift the other foot, then return it to the floor, all while holding the ball firmly in both hands, it doesn't matter which foot was the pivot.

The point was that you can't tell from the video whether the ball was being fumbled because the player's back was to the camera. If it was being fumbled, there was no pivot foot and therefore no travel.

The point made was completely legitimate. It is also not germane to this stoopid poll anyway.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The point made was completely legitimate. It is also not germane to this stoopid poll anyway.

Now I want to know how you voted!

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Now I want to know how you voted!

He didn't. You can see everybody's vote by clicking one of the numbers in the results.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Now I want to know how you voted!

I agreed with Scrappy's take way back in the other thread....oh, about 4/5 days ago. After that----> paralysis through analysis.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The point was that you can't tell from the video whether the ball was being fumbled because the player's back was to the camera.

No, the point was that the travel I describe is after the dribble, as the player turns toward the camera. When he picks up his dribble, he is right on the edge of the lane. When he puts up the shot, he is close to the center of the lane. Hard to blame the guy for working on this move. You see it on tv all the time with no whistle.