Poll: What do you have?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Wow. That's just mean.

Truth sometimes hurts I guess.

Peace

[Tio]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Truth sometimes hurts I guess.

Peace

Alright Rutledge, I'm calling you out on this one. Why do you feel the need to make this personal? Why can't we just agree to disagree instead of taking shots at guys asking them how "final four careers" are progressing. And pointing out guys that are "struggling for acceptance." Is that information really germane to this conversation?

We all are on the same team here. I think some of us on this board need to remember that officiating is a brotherhood and we need to watch each other's backs. Officiating is a craft, not a science. Which in my book means that what works for one official might not work for the other.

[Odd Duck]

Originally Posted by Tio

Alright Rutledge, I'm calling you out on this one. Why do you feel the need to make this personal? Why can't we just agree to disagree instead of taking shots at guys asking them how "final four careers" are progressing. And pointing out guys that are "struggling for acceptance." Is that information really germane to this conversation?

We all are on the same team here. I think some of us on this board need to remember that officiating is a brotherhood and we need to watch each other's backs. Officiating is a craft, not a science. Which in my book means that what works for one official might not work for the other.

Beause when you make a mistake it is easier to go into attack mode than apologize? Just a guess

I had a fellow official deliver something to me today and aksed his opinion. Just for the record, he is not having trouble with acceptance...at least you would think not since he called the boys state finals last year. His first comment after watching the video...Travel on the move into the lane.

IMO, if that isn't traveling...they should remove it as a violation.

[Adam]

look, Rut's comment was in direct response to a personal shot from mwanr1. Personally, I thought the video card comment was meant in jest; but Rut apparently didn't.

Also, he's got a pretty solid history here of not second guessing officials on the court; especially for no-calls. It's not about being wrong and going on the attack, it's about a natural deference to the officials who were actually taking the heat for their calls; which none of us have to do from the safety of our office chairs.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

look, Rut's comment was in direct response to a personal shot from mwanr1. Personally, I thought the video card comment was meant in jest; but Rut apparently didn't.

Also, he's got a pretty solid history here of not second guessing officials on the court; especially for no-calls. It's not about being wrong and going on the attack, it's about a natural deference to the officials who were actually taking the heat for their calls; which none of us have to do from the safety of our office chairs.

I also did not think my comments were that out of bounds. When you are complaining about how you do not get shots at much varsity and college, it is appropriate to take a stab back at you about your ability to make judgments when you are question my judgment. For what it is worth, I work almost only high school varsity and college ball and I have been doing so for years. And in my opinion this was a common spin move that you see all the time and I do not see definitively when the dribble stopped (which is why it is hard to judge what should be called) and if the right foot was the pivot foot. Now I have not read anywhere of someone saying which was the pivot foot or what they thought was the pivot foot on the tape. All I hear is, "That has to be a travel" rather than the specifics of why the play was illegal. I ask campers why they call things so they understand they are not making calls because it looked like something, but they know it was something. Because when a college supervisor (and I work for some at the high school level) they want very specific answers, not, "I thought it was a travel." And if you are going to be critical of what kind of video player I have (cable modem running at the highest speed) then be prepared for the same comment to come back to you. Ask John McCain that question.

Peace

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And if you are going to be critical of what kind of video player I have (cable modem running at the highest speed) then be prepared for the same comment to come back to you. Ask John McCain that question.

Peace

OK, leave technology alone and stick with officiating... you obvious do nothing all day and night but watch video of yourself officiating.

What does your video player have to do with your cable modem speed?

[Adam]

I have to say I'm surprised at how many feel it's a block. Should have added a 4th option: Unable to tell by video.

My concern is that too many think it's a block for the wrong reasons; "He wasn't set," "he hadn't stopped," etc.

If you don't think he established LGP in time, or that he broke LGP by moving into the shooter, fair enough.

And I'd say the travel call is probably 99% agreed upon here.

I'll add that the white rebounder travelled before his shot as well.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

Seriously, it was just a joke. Chill out Rut: it's only the forum. Don't be so defensive about everything Mr. Sensitive!

Who was upset? Did I see me use a "" or a "" smiley?

No you did not.

If you cannot take getting dirty, do not play in the mud.

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

OK, leave technology alone and stick with officiating... you obvious do nothing all day and night but watch video of yourself officiating.

What does your video player have to do with your cable modem speed?

Where I live we have access to all kinds of video of all kinds of sports of all kinds of plays and situation. One of the people that is on my football crew helped start this trend in my state in football and even in basketball in my state. We review tape of all kinds of plays all the time. And right now I am teaching a football class where we use a lot of video to teach rules and philosophy. And I bought a digital video recorder and I have taped several games I have worked so I can see things I do as well as my partners. Yes, I watch tones of video of others because of the enormous amounts of high school games seen on TV. And I review games I work to see my good and bad mechanics and good and bad calls made by the crew.

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

you are only 35 yrs old and you're having trouble with your memory. When did I ever talk to you about acceptance in my area?

So you are a full time varsity official in your area and have not talked about getting a break on this board?

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Now I have not read anywhere of someone saying which was the pivot foot or what they thought was the pivot foot on the tape. All I hear is, "That has to be a travel" rather than the specifics of why the play was illegal.

When you lift one foot, then return it to the floor, then lift the other foot, then return it to the floor, all while holding the ball firmly in both hands, it doesn't matter which foot was the pivot.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

When you lift one foot, then return it to the floor, then lift the other foot, then return it to the floor, all while holding the ball firmly in both hands, it doesn't matter which foot was the pivot.

When did the dribble end? When was the pivot foot established? All that stuff matters. And it is really hard to tell anything when a player has their back to you the camera and you cannot tell when the player shot the ball and when the other foot touched or did not touch. That was even harder to tell than whether there was contact on the other end.

Let us stop talking about this; we are not going to agree. And I am not really concerned about a travel that was not called and did not seem to matter in this game or even to the person that posted the video.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

When you lift one foot, then return it to the floor, then lift the other foot, then return it to the floor, all while holding the ball firmly in both hands, it doesn't matter which foot was the pivot.

The point was that you can't tell from the video whether the ball was being fumbled because the player's back was to the camera. If it was being fumbled, there was no pivot foot and therefore no travel.

The point made was completely legitimate. It is also not germane to this stoopid poll anyway.

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

look, Rut's comment was in direct response to a personal shot from mwanr1. Personally, I thought the video card comment was meant in jest; but Rut apparently didn't.

Seriously, it was just a joke. Chill out Rut: it's only the forum. Don't be so defensive about everything Mr. Sensitive!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Tio

Alright Rutledge, I'm calling you out on this one. Why do you feel the need to make this personal? Why can't we just agree to disagree instead of taking shots at guys asking them how "final four careers" are progressing. And pointing out guys that are "struggling for acceptance." Is that information really germane to this conversation?

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

I'm telling you guys: Rut needs a new video card and a monitor, or glasses.

You must did not read these comments.

And if you have not accomplished some things and you have openly talked about how you got your “first shot at.......” then you are open for criticism if you want to constantly call someone names for disagreeing with you. If you do not want people to call you out, then at the very least understand you do not know everything just because you share your opinion. I have always stated that this is my opinion based on what I see and based on the fact the officials were in decent position for at least one of the plays.

Originally Posted by Tio

We all are on the same team here. I think some of us on this board need to remember that officiating is a brotherhood and we need to watch each other's backs. Officiating is a craft, not a science. Which in my book means that what works for one official might not work for the other.

Actually some of the most back stabbing people in officiating are fellow officials. And I am not talking about what I read on this board. I can sit in the stands with them and have the very people that are in this profession, saying all kinds of negative things about officials because they are "sitting in the stands" instead of officiating. You have a fantasy world view about this if you like, but in my opinion I am at the very least saying the officials had a better view. I am not saying what should or should not be called without that as a consideration.

Peace

[just another ref]

We all have our own perception of what the truth is. My own perception is that the game today is suffering because more and more officials refuse to call more and more violations. I think that without question this started at the NBA level and trickled down. The question is why? I speculate that at least part of the problem is lower level officials with big-time ambitions: "I call just like the big dogs!"

Whether the "big dogs" and the big dog wannabes "miss" so many violations,

1. by design

2. because they are afraid to blow the whistle and be wrong

3. for some other reason

I find any of these unacceptable.


Case in point is the video on this thread. The foul has proven to be 15 pages of debatable, block, pc, or no-call, none of which seems to be totally out of the question to most. The travel(s), on the other hand, one of which is undeniable, are there and so often uncalled, they seem to be less and less worthy of mention at all levels. I find this disturbing.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

We all have our own perception of what the truth is. My own perception is that the game today is suffering because more and more officials refuse to call more and more violations. I think that without question this started at the NBA level and trickled down. The question is why? I speculate that at least part of the problem is lower level officials with big-time ambitions: "I call just like the big dogs!"

Whether the "big dogs" and the big dog wannabes "miss" so many violations,

1. by design

2. because they are afraid to blow the whistle and be wrong

3. for some other reason

I find any of these unacceptable.

How about, not every official knows how to recognize a violation properly. Why does it have to be a conspiracy to not make a call? And being afraid is one of the funniest comments of all. We get yelled at when we make the right call, when the participants do not know the basic rules. If fear was a driving factor, I do not see why anyone would want to put on the whistle and stripped shirt in the first place.

Originally Posted by just another ref

Case in point is the video on this thread. The foul has proven to be 15 pages of debatable, block, pc, or no-call, none of which seems to be totally out of the question to most. The travel(s), on the other hand, one of which is undeniable, are there and so often uncalled, they seem to be less and less worthy of mention at all levels. I find this disturbing.

The reason there is debate and there will always be debate on most videos of plays, is because not everyone has the same judgment, the angles are not perfect and none of us saw what the official saw. If we were to be that far away from a play and called a travel or foul, not only would you be vilified, it would be justified. The officials on the tape had much better angles than any of us had and on the travels, you cannot even see the ball and what the player was doing with the ball to say one way or another that the play was clearly missed. If that disturbs you, then I would like to watch your games and constantly point out what you call on tape, and not consider any of your positioning or angles you had and evaluate you as an official in total. I bet you would think that was not fair, and you probably would disagree with my assessment and other's assessment about your ability as well. That is why when tape comes into play with supervisors, they usually talk to the calling official about what they saw and consider where they are as it relates to the play.

Peace