Is it a Pass or a Shot?

[Lotto]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

NFHS Casebaook Play R4.15.4C: After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball (a) against the opponent's backboard and catches the rebound; or (b) against an official, immediately recovers the ball and dribbles again; or (c) against his/her own backboard, catches the rebound and dribbles again. RULING: A1 has violated in both (a) and (b). Throwing the ball against the opponent's backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is the first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. In (c), the action is legal as a player's own backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds, but does not constitute a part of a dribble. (R9-S5)

Casebook Play (c) is identical to A.R. 40.

Actually, casebook play (c) is different, since it explicitly allows the player to dribble again after throwing it off his/her own backboard. AR40 only deals with an airborne player catching and dunking, a much narrower situation.

NCAA 4-18.4 AR-13 is the same as parts (a) and (b) of the NFHS case you quoted, but has no part (c).

I was unable to find anything else in the NCAA rulebook that deals with this.

On another note, I've never been able to find anything in the NCAA rulebook that prohibits a pass to oneself. I've seen the NFHS case quoted several times on this board. Does anyone have a rule reference for NCAA?

[Slider]

Originally posted by Lotto
Actually, casebook play (c) is different, since it explicitly allows the player to dribble again after throwing it off his/her own backboard. AR40 only deals with an airborne player catching and dunking, a much narrower situation.

NCAA 4-18.4 AR-13 is the same as parts (a) and (b) of the NFHS case you quoted, but has no part (c).

I was unable to find anything else in the NCAA rulebook that deals with this.

On another note, I've never been able to find anything in the NCAA rulebook that prohibits a pass to oneself. I've seen the NFHS case quoted several times on this board. Does anyone have a rule reference for NCAA? [/B]

A.R. 40. A1 intercepts a pass and dribbles toward A’s basket for a break-away layup.
Near A’s free-throw line, A1 legally stops and ends his or her dribble. A1 throws the
ball against A’s backboard and follows the throw. While airborne, A1 rebounds the ball
off the backboard and dunks. R U L I N G : The play shall be legal since the backboard is
equipment located in A1’s half of the playing court, which A1 is entitled to use.

The fact that A1 is allowed to follow the ball (while stepping) and legaly catch the "self-pass" implies that he could start a new dribble, IMO.

There is no explicit rule against a "self-pass" in the rules to my knowledge; you have to read and interpret the traveling rules in order to rule on a self pass.

[BktBallRef]

Slider, actually a self pass is addressed by 4.15.4E. Also, 4.15.4C states that the player could legally dribble again.

4.15.4C
After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: (a) against the opponent's backboard and catches the rebound; or (b) against an official, immediately recovers the ball and dribbles again; or (c) against his/her own backboard, catches the rebound and dribbles again.

Ruling: A1 has violated in both (a) and (b). Throwing the ball against the opponent's backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. In (c), the action is legal as a player's own backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds, but does not constitute a part of a dribble.


4.15.4 SITUATION E: (a) A1 tosses the ball from one hand to the other while keeping his/her pivot foot in contact with the floor; or (b) A1 throws the ball over the head of B1 and then takes several steps before catching it.

Ruling: Legal in (a), but a traveling violation in (b). In (b), A1 may not move his/her pivot foot without violating. Since the ball did not touch the floor, the tossing and subsequent catch is not part of a dribble nor is it the start and end of a dribble. (9-4)

[BigJoe]

I'm an idiot! I also flew off the handle and like a howler monkey thought I knew the rules. I'm not going to make another submission (after this one) unless I check the rule book and have rule references. Also, I'm done with basketball and I'm going to concentrate on my golf game! I'm glad we have such sharp guys on our forum that can correct "gomers" like me.

Note: I went from the lower level of the outhouse in the NCAA brackets to the first floor with my picks of Kent State and UCLA in the sweet 16!

[mick]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Slider, actually a self pass is addressed by 4.15.4E. Also, 4.15.4C states that the player could legally dribble again.

4.15.4C
After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: (a) against the opponent's backboard and catches the rebound; or (b) against an official, immediately recovers the ball and dribbles again; or (c) against his/her own backboard, catches the rebound and dribbles again.

Ruling: A1 has violated in both (a) and (b). Throwing the ball against the opponent's backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. In (c), the action is legal as a player's own backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds, but does not constitute a part of a dribble.


4.15.4 SITUATION E: (a) A1 tosses the ball from one hand to the other while keeping his/her pivot foot in contact with the floor; or (b) A1 throws the ball over the head of B1 and then takes several steps before catching it.

Ruling: Legal in (a), but a traveling violation in (b). In (b), A1 may not move his/her pivot foot without violating. Since the ball did not touch the floor, the tossing and subsequent catch is not part of a dribble nor is it the start and end of a dribble. (9-4)

Nice job, Tony!

[Lotto]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Slider, actually a self pass is addressed by 4.15.4E. Also, 4.15.4C states that the player could legally dribble again.

These are the NFHS rules. Does anyone have a reference for NCAA?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Lotto

These are the NFHS rules. Does anyone have a reference for NCAA?

The "legal on a try" reference: 4-64-1 AR33

The "illegal otherwise" reference: 4-18-4 AR13, AR14 (plus some common sense reading of 4-18 and 4-64)

[Slider]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Slider, actually a self pass is addressed by 4.15.4E. Also, 4.15.4C states that the player could legally dribble again.

True, I should have said the words "self pass" are not used.

[zebra44]

Hey Mick, when do I get the bill for the black socks I "borrowed" from you at FU?

[mick]

Originally posted by zebra44
Hey Mick, when do I get the bill for the black socks I "borrowed" from you at FU?

zebra44,
Glad I was packin'.
mick

[MOFFICIAL]

Originally posted by John Arduini
I was doing a men's rec league game yesterday under NCAA men's rules and a player got a breakaway, ran down the court, threw the ball off the backboard, took a few steps, caught the ball and then dunked it. I called him for traveling as you can't pass to yourself. He said he was shooting and therefore not a violation. Your thoughts??

I'd like to add a twist to this play. Upon releasing the ball to hit the backboard B1 turns to block out A1 after A1 has elevated to dunk his "pass" off the board. What kind of foul do you have in A if A1 has the ball or B if A1 does not yet have the ball?

[williebfree]

Originally posted by MOFFICIAL

I'd like to add a twist to this play. Upon releasing the ball to hit the backboard B1 turns to block out A1 after A1 has elevated to dunk his "pass" off the board. What kind of foul do you have in A if A1 has the ball or B if A1 does not yet have the ball? [/QUOTE]

If the contact is signifant enough to warrant a foul, it should be a common foul (BLOCK).
As I interpret this situation, A1 is attempting to rebound a missed shot.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by MOFFICIAL

I'd like to add a twist to this play. Upon releasing the ball to hit the backboard B1 turns to block out A1 after A1 has elevated to dunk his "pass" off the board. What kind of foul do you have in A if A1 has the ball or B if A1 does not yet have the ball?

There could be any number of calls made.

Common foul on B1 if he fouls before A1 gets the ball.

Shooting foul on B1 if he fouls after A1 gets the ball.

Common foul on A1 if B1 has legal position and A1 fouls him.

[gduck]

I'm new with the rules/officiating and I am confused. Can anyone summarize for me when it is legal for a player to bounce the ball to him or herself off the backboard?

Thank you for any help you can give to a new official.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by gduck
I'm new with the rules/officiating and I am confused. Can anyone summarize for me when it is legal for a player to bounce the ball to him or herself off the backboard?

Thank you for any help you can give to a new official.

Offensive backboard: Any time (possible exception: the player is in the backcourt, throws the ball off the offensive board and recovers it in the backcourt with no one else touching it.)

Defensive backboard: Treat it just like the player bounced the ball off the floor. If that was legal (e.g., the player had not already dribbled), then the throw (and recovery) off the backboard is legal.