Foul on jump ball participant

[Raymond]

Opening tap. After 'R' releases the ball A1 holds B1 down by the shoulder to keep him from jumping. Do you have a common foul or an intentional?

[Dan_ref]

Whatever you decide you can tell it's gonna be a very, very long night.

I have intentional btw

[jdmara]

Absolutely intentional foul

Let's see, the ball is live when it leaves the Rs hands & holding a player who isn't trying for a basket during live action is a common foul.

Although I'm sure a case can be made for an intentional foul if the hold negates an obvious advantageous position for B1.

Guess one would have to be there to determine...

I'm more concerned about what to do next in both situations.

Common foul - award the ball to Team B OOB closest to the spot of the foul & point the arrow to Team A when it's at the throwers disposal?

Intentional foul - B1 shoots 2 FTs & the ball to Team B OOB closest to the spot of the foul & point the arrow to Team A when it's at the FTers disposal? or at throwers disposal?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Whatever you decide you can tell it's gonna be a very, very long night.

I missed the foul. B1 complained to me about it and I believe him cuz A1 is a sneaky dude.

It was a long game though...B1 was begging and whining for calls all night. Then those 2 ended up jawing at each other with 0.9 left in the game and we had to separate them.

After the game I was letting my partner (he's not on the HS board) know that A1 should know better b/c he is a buddy of mine and an official. Then my partner lets me know that B1 is a retired E-8 from the military and used to be his supervisor.

Go figure, the 2 guys with connections to the officials would be the ones to put sh!t in the game.

Oh an adults game? Wreck? You really should've said so.

I've got nothing & if B1 complains I hit him with my off-season catch phrase "it's a mans game, play ball"!

No offense ladies.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

...

Intentional foul - B1 shoots 2 FTs & the ball to Team B OOB closest to the spot of the foul & point the arrow to Team A when it's at the FTers disposal? or at throwers disposal?

Good question about the arrow. I need to look that one up. I'm going to guess that it's when it's at the FT'er's disposal as something could happen in the interim (like a T on Team B) and we never make it to their throw-in (NFHS rules)....edit: guess my guess would be wrong per Nevada's post below.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

I'm more concerned about what to do next in both situations.

Common foul - award the ball to Team B OOB closest to the spot of the foul & point the arrow to Team A when it's at the throwers disposal?

Intentional foul - B1 shoots 2 FTs & the ball to Team B OOB closest to the spot of the foul & point the arrow to Team A when it's at the FTers disposal? or at throwers disposal?

NFHS 4-3-3
Alternating-possession control is established and the initial direction of the
possession arrow is set toward the opponent's basket when:

. . . The ball is placed at the disposal of the thrower after:
a. A violation during or following the jump before a player secures control.
b. The free throws for a noncommon foul.
c. A common foul before the bonus free throw is in effect.

[Nevadaref]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch1town
...

Intentional foul - B1 shoots 2 FTs & the ball to Team B OOB closest to the spot of the foul & point the arrow to Team A when it's at the FTers disposal? or at throwers disposal?

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Good question about the arrow. I need to look that one up. I'm going to guess that it's when it's at the FT'er's disposal as something could happen in the interim (like a T on Team B) and we never make it to their throw-in (NFHS rules).

You had a 50-50 shot at it, but missed.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Quote:




You had a 50-50 shot at it, but missed.

Yeah, I saw that...I already edited my post above.

Good looking out Nevadaref! I can always count on you to put the rules out there in b&w.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Let's see, the ball is live when it leaves the Rs hands & holding a player who isn't trying for a basket during live action is a common foul.

Just want to chime in on this part with a reminder that, had the foul been before the R released the ball, it would have to be an intentional (or, perhaps, flagrant) technical foul.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Oh an adults game? Wreck? You really should've said so.

I've got nothing & if B1 complains I hit him with my off-season catch phrase "it's a mans game, play ball"!

No offense ladies.

I don't know. If I see this at any level, I'm calling it intentional. I see no reason to let this go in an adult league game, especially since they have a greater propensity to get out of hand.

It's an intentional hold without any attempt to play the ball. Easy call, IMO.

Mark- Because it's a dead ball? Don't we have the option to ignore that contact?

Snaqwells- I see your point too but I really don't mind them getting out of hand at that level.
3 Ts = ballgame My partner & I are now on "break" or even better going home early.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Good looking out Nevadaref! I can always count on you to put the rules out there in b&w.

You're welcome, and FYI if this situation were to occur when the bonus was in effect, such as at the start of an extra period with both teams having committed 7 team fouls in the second half, and the foul was deemed a common foul, then the following rule applies.

4-3-2
. . . The ball is placed at the disposal of the free thrower after a common foul when the bonus free throw is in effect.

So one has to consider both whether the bonus is in effect at this point in the game as well as if FTs are for a common foul or a noncommon foul in order to reach the proper conclusion.