Too many players on the court

[Coach Bill]

Middle School AAU game played under NFHS rules.

After a timeout, the other team sent 6 players on the court. We brought the ball up from the backcourt to the frontcourt, when I noticed they had 6. I yelled to the ref, they have 6 on the court. The other coach heard me yelling, and yelled "So and so, get off the court!". His played stepped off the court right in front of the ref, and hustled back to the bench. I ended up getting a technical, for complaining that they didn't call a technical on them. They admitted they saw it, but ignored it.

I'm not complaining about my 'T' (I deserved it). But, are refs reluctant to call this 'T', because perhaps it's their fault for not counting and signaling?

[Adam]

Unfortunately, there are some spineless refs out there that won't call it becaus they think it's their fault. They're wrong. It's not their fault; or the rules committee wouldn't have this be a technical foul.

Some don't want to call it in AAU games. I think they're wrong, too (although I leave a bit more room for discussion here). I'd have called the T.

That said, if the refs never counted until after the player had left the court, it's not a T, as it needs to be discovered while being violated in order to be a technical foul.

[Bad Zebra]

Counting players prior to making the ball live is a pretty basic practice of basketball officiating. Sounds like you had a crew that was somewhat lacking in that area.

That being said, it is still ultimately the coach's responsibility to only put five players on the court. It should be called a T regardless.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Counting players prior to making the ball live is a pretty basic practice of basketball officiating. Sounds like you had a crew that was somewhat lacking in that area.

Absolutely correct.

That being said, it is still ultimately the coach's responsibility to only put five players on the court. It should be called a T regardless.

Absolutely correct.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

Middle School AAU game played under NFHS rules.

After a timeout, the other team sent 6 players on the court. We brought the ball up from the backcourt to the frontcourt, when I noticed they had 6. I yelled to the ref, they have 6 on the court. The other coach heard me yelling, and yelled "So and so, get off the court!". His played stepped off the court right in front of the ref, and hustled back to the bench. I ended up getting a technical, for complaining that they didn't call a technical on them. They admitted they saw it, but ignored it.

I'm not complaining about my 'T' (I deserved it). But, are refs reluctant to call this 'T', because perhaps it's their fault for not counting and signaling?

Unfortunately, there were many mistakes made on this one.

Mistake #1: Coach failed to send only 5 players to the court.

Mistake #2: the officials either:

• didn't use the mechanic to ensure only 5 players per team are on the court
• ignored the illegal act
• followed the mechanic and missed the 6th player

While it is the coach's ultimate responsibility for fielding the correct number of players, the officials do have mechanics to catch cases where more than or less than 5 players are on the court from one team.

Mistake #3: The officials also should have assessed a technical foul against the team that had 6 players.

Mistake #4: I also believe that they should not have issued a technical foul against you for your informing the officials of your opponents having 6 players, unless you did so in an unsporting manner.

All in all, it sounds like 4 large mistakes were made.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Mistake #4: I also believe that they should not have issued a technical foul against you for your informing the officials of your opponents having 6 players, unless you did so in an unsporting manner.

I'm guessing Coach Bill probably crossed the "unsporting manner" line, as he did say in his OP that he "deserved" it.

The misapplication of one rule does not mean an official shouldn't enforce another and call a technical foul when warranted.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I'm guessing Coach Bill probably crossed the "unsporting manner" line, as he did say in his OP that he "deserved" it.

The misapplication of one rule does not mean an official shouldn't enforce another and call a technical foul when warranted.

True, but in this case, it would have been prevented.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

True, but in this case, it would have been prevented.

Well, sure, if any of the previous three "mitakes" hadn't been committed, it probably would have prevented the mistakes following. I just disagree that #4 is a mistake like the others.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Well, sure, if any of the previous three "mitakes" hadn't been committed, it probably would have prevented the mistakes following. I just disagree that #4 is a mistake like the others.

My take on the OP gives me the same impression.

[JugglingReferee]

Coach,

What did you yell to the officials?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Coach,

What did you yell to the officials?

"Can't you f**king count?"

[JRutledge]

I cannot believe we are holding officials that are working an AAU Middle school game at a high standard. Scared to all a T? Four mistakes? I am sure the officials working the game were not the best officials around the area considering this is an off season middle school AAU game. Just an observation.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

That said, if the refs never counted until after the player had left the court, it's not a T, as it needs to be discovered while being violated in order to be a technical foul.

Where do we draw the line on this? If you see A1 go to the bench, then count 5 more players on the court would you call it then?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Where do we draw the line on this? If you see A1 go to the bench, then count 5 more players on the court would you call it then?

At that point, is Team A violating the prohibition against having more than five players on the court?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

At that point, is Team A violating the prohibition against having more than five players on the court?

They were up until A1 stepped off the court, which the officials saw in the OP.