Too many players on the court

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Just because this was not called does not mean the officials noticed and turned the other cheek.

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

They admitted they saw it, but ignored it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Interesting, that is what the coach says. It must be true. Just like the officials in the article that referenced in another thread told coaches to sit down and shut up.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Interesting, that is what the coach says. It must be true. Just like the officials in the article that referenced in another thread told coaches to sit down and shut up.

Peace

I took coach at his word, sure. I had no reason not to. He didn't claim anything that seemed outrageous. If I didn't think he was telling the truth, I'd have no reason to respond. Are we to assume all coaches are lying when they come here? That sounds overly skeptical, and I'm as skeptical as anyone.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by just another ref

They were up until A1 stepped off the court, which the officials saw in the OP.

But when they saw A1 step off the court, they didn't know that there were still five players left. IMO, no T in this case.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I took coach at his word, sure. I had no reason not to. He didn't claim anything that seemed outrageous. If I didn't think he was telling the truth, I'd have no reason to respond. Are we to assume all coaches are lying when they come here? That sounds overly skeptical, and I'm as skeptical as anyone.

THIS IS A MIDDLE SCHOOL AAU GAME!!!! I seriously doubt that the officials were afraid to do much of anything. I do not care what the coach says. A coach's point of view is very different than an official's point of view. I am sure six on the court is not only the biggest priority of the game, but a lot of other rules on uniforms, coaching boxes and I am sure all the mechanics are not used by the book and you come out as if the officials are afraid to enforce a rule? In some cases they are lucky they get two officials in the first place. My point is we need to have a little perspective.

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Rut, calm down dude.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Rut, calm down dude.

Another example why some here need perspective badly. What is there to calm down about?

Peace

[Coach Bill]

To Mark Dexter: "But when they saw A1 step off the court, they didn't know that there were still five players left. IMO, no T in this case."

Wouldn't you have either:

1. Too many players
2. A player voluntarily leaving the playing court.
3. A player away from the bench area.

Aren't these all cases for a 'T'? You had to have something.

And, the refs admitted they saw him, but "He got off the court quickly, so we let it go". I got the 'T' for unsportingly asking "How can you just ignore the rules like that!!!"

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

To Mark Dexter: "But when they saw A1 step off the court, they didn't know that there were still five players left. IMO, no T in this case."

Wouldn't you have either:

1. Too many players
2. A player voluntarily leaving the playing court.
3. A player away from the bench area.

Aren't these all cases for a 'T'? You had to have something.

And, the refs admitted they saw him, but "He got off the court quickly, so we let it go". I got the 'T' for unsportingly asking "How can you just ignore the rules like that!!!"

For the record, Coach Bill and I are not related nor am I posting under another name.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

THIS IS A MIDDLE SCHOOL AAU GAME!!!! I seriously doubt that the officials were afraid to do much of anything. I do not care what the coach says. A coach's point of view is very different than an official's point of view. I am sure six on the court is not only the biggest priority of the game, but a lot of other rules on uniforms, coaching boxes and I am sure all the mechanics are not used by the book and you come out as if the officials are afraid to enforce a rule? In some cases they are lucky they get two officials in the first place. My point is we need to have a little perspective.

Peace

Rut, you're not saying anything here I disagree with. My point about spineless refs was not directed at these officials. It was a general answer to a general question. I'll admit in context that it may not have come across that way, but I have already explained it.

Coach's POV here is actually pretty straight forward. He isn't claiming he got cheated, he's just wondering about the enforcement of this particular rule. I think, in an AAU game, if I noticed it as the 6th player was getting to his bench and there hadn't been an advantage and it hadn't happened previously in the game, I'd let it go.

My point is that I don't think anyone here has really come at this without proper perspective.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

To Mark Dexter: "But when they saw A1 step off the court, they didn't know that there were still five players left. IMO, no T in this case."

Wouldn't you have either:

1. Too many players
2. A player voluntarily leaving the playing court.
3. A player away from the bench area.

Aren't these all cases for a 'T'? You had to have something.

And, the refs admitted they saw him, but "He got off the court quickly, so we let it go". I got the 'T' for unsportingly asking "How can you just ignore the rules like that!!!"

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

For the record, Coach Bill and I are not related nor am I posting under another name.

For the record, #2 is not a T. It's a violation (9-3-3), and only for doing so for an "unauthorized reason." But you knew that.
I doubt anyone here would consider the "6th man" getting his a$$ off the court to be less than authorized.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

To Mark Dexter: "But when they saw A1 step off the court, they didn't know that there were still five players left. IMO, no T in this case."

Wouldn't you have either:

1. Too many players
2. A player deceptively leaving the playing court.
3. A player away from the bench area.

Aren't these all cases for a 'T'? You had to have something.

And, the refs admitted they saw him, but "He got off the court quickly, so we let it go". I got the 'T' for unsportingly asking "How can you just ignore the rules like that!!!"

Better now, Adam?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Better now, Adam?

Not really. For two reasons.
First, I don't see how the OP could be considered a deceptive situation. It's more of an "Oh Sh!t" moment.
Second, and more importantly, I'm not finding anything in rule 10 about "deceptively" leaving the playing court being a technical foul.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Rut, you're not saying anything here I disagree with. My point about spineless refs was not directed at these officials. It was a general answer to a general question. I'll admit in context that it may not have come across that way, but I have already explained it.

Coach's POV here is actually pretty straight forward. He isn't claiming he got cheated, he's just wondering about the enforcement of this particular rule. I think, in an AAU game, if I noticed it as the 6th player was getting to his bench and there hadn't been an advantage and it hadn't happened previously in the game, I'd let it go.

My point is that I don't think anyone here has really come at this without proper perspective.

You are missing the larger point. During AAU games there are often not the same structures or expectations. For example you might not even have players and the table in the proper place which makes any substitution an adventure because you cannot follow the same procedures you have in a real game. Whether the coach thinks he got screwed or not was also not the point I was making. And considering many games are not run under the same structure that a regular season, I would not suggest that the official did the wrong thing unless I knew more about the tournament. And I bet if the coach was had to answer, he probably would tell us about exceptions, upon exceptions of many rules in this and many tournaments. And usually how substitutions are done have many challenges to follow the proper rules with multiple courts next to each other and it being difficult to even have a clear bench area as the coach wants to suggest.

Peace

[Adam]

I don't disagree with anything you wrote, except, "You are missing the larger point."

I didn't suggest these officials did the wrong thing. I answered a general question with a general answer. The fact is some officials are reluctant to call this because they think it was their fault, not the coach's. I never said these particular officials were guilty of this; in fact, I specifically allowed for an alternate theory; that the level of ball contributed to their decision. I also stated that while I may or may not disagree with that, it's certainly not in the same category as the "spineless" variety of no-call.