How good/bad is your association involved in politics?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You need 18 hours of instruction every year to know the rules? Long term memory issues?

No, they need the 18 hrs per year to claim they are the best officials in the country.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

No, they need the 18 hrs per year to claim they are the best officials in the country.

Don't forget the ability to crap on other officials on a public forum.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by socalreff

I guess it depends on the instructor and the instructee. Video breakdown of games, on floor demos, situation discussions, rules tests, scrimmage work, 3 person training, not to mention summer camps, clinics, and leagues.
Anyone that wants to be can be college ready in 3 years with what and who they have available to them here.

So, your summer camps, summer leagues, and scrimmages count towards the 18 hours? If so, it's no different than anywhere else except maybe the formality of the requirement. If not, it's irrelevant to this particular discussion.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Don't forget the ability to crap on other officials on a public forum.

Well if you're the best you should be able to crap on whoever (whomever?) you like wherever and whenever you want.

Damn... I really wish I had this 18 hr per year thingy here where I am. Hey Socal, would these classes help me get who & whom straight? I'm never sure which one to use.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Well if you're the best you should be able to crap on whoever (whomever?) you like wherever and whenever you want.

Damn... I really wish I had this 18 hr per year thingy here where I am. Hey Socal, would these classes help me get who & whom straight? I'm never sure which one to use.

Used to be there was a Mr. Annoying Grammar Guy....

[Adam]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Used to be there was a Mr. Annoying Grammar Guy....

I hear he's doing real high level stuff now

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I hear he's doing real high level stuff now

He moved to the woman's side?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by socalreff

Anyone that wants to be can be college ready in 3 years with what and who they have available to them here.

Ah, yes, you too can enter the magical World Of College And Above. All you have to do is go to class for three years. You may be required to do a few scrimmages also, but only if you feel like it. Yup, it takes less time to be a fully qualified and competent college official in Cali than it does to get a college degree. No need to actually go out on the court and officiate any real games either while you're doing so. Nosiree, BillyJoeJimBob, having game experience isn't really needed.

I'm kinda mystified at a few little thing though. If, every year, there is a graduating class of third-year officials that are ready to go out there to do all of those college games, what happens to all of the guys/gals that were doing them the year before? Do the assignors just have wholesale firings to make room for all of these college-ready third year officials coming in? Do they fire by seniority? Do they fire the most experienced officials first to make room for all of those up-and-comers? If so, how come I still see all of those familiar faces on the PAC10 crews? Hasn't anyone bothered to tell 'em yet that they're redundant and no longer needed?

Do the members of your graduating classes have the option to move to other states to claim college jobs there too, seeing that they're so much better trained and competent than the officials in all of those other states?

And at the high school level, does that mean that every year's graduating class just replaces existing high school officials too? You know, to get ready for the inevitable journey to The Land Of College And Above? Or do they just skip the high school varsity level completely in their first 3 years because there really isn't any advantage to working at that lowly level.

Inquiring minds need to know!!!

Oh, one other little question, if you don't mind. What color is the sky in your world out there?

[Dan_ref]

Hey EGSDOTU, didn't you hear the guy say that he and the rest of the people in his association are THE best in the COUNTRY? Isn't that enough for you?

geeze...

[Cajun Reff]

I am glad someone else started this thread, we had a major situation recently in our association and we are still seeing the fall out.

Our association is consistently the best or second best in the state based on playoff assignments and coach's ratings cards. So we take pride in what we do, but with any big group there will always be problems.

In the regular season in LA, boys and girls usually play district games on the same nights (Tuesday and Fridays.) The girls playoffs always start a week before the boys regular season ends to make sure that the best reffs will be available for both the girls playoffs and the boys district games. A few weeks ago the girl's state HS playoffs kicked off on a Thursday night and our association was requested by coaches to be neutral crews for 21 first round games. We work the playoffs in 3 man crews so this was an opportunity for 63 officials to get a playoff assignment. Our assignment secretary made the calls and discovered he had 6 crew chiefs that were not available on that Thursday for the girls.

4 of the crew chiefs were working college games that night and 2 had personal schedule conflicts (NONE illness related). Now keep in mind we know well in advance when the playoffs start and certain reffs know they are crew chiefs and at least two other reffs are counting on them for the opportunity to work a playoff game. So the assignment secretary had to turn down 6 assignments and 12 other officials stayed home.

For round two (the next Monday) of the girls playoffs the assignment secretary received his neutral crew requests and assigned crews based on those who worked round one. So 6 crew chief level reffs got held out of round two of the girls playoff assignments. Of course they raised holy hell about this because working round one and round two meant none of them would get a chance to work the LA Girls Final Four.

These six chiefs decided to recruit other officials and create a new association. In LHSAA bylaws, to have a charter for a new association, you must have a minimum of 8 LHSAA member schools sign a contract to use your association. At last report, it is rumored they have the 8 schools and approximately 20+ officials pledged to join them.

This situation brings up several key issues:
1) 8 LHSAA member schools is good for Freshmen, JV and Varsity assignments only. This is not enough game work for 20+ officials and there is no junior high assignments for the younger reffs to get floor time and make money.
2) of the 20+ officials that pledged to join the new Association, approximately 8 of them work college games so the schedule conflicts will still remain and intensify
3) The LHSAA Asst Commissioner responsible for officials is livid that this group of officials has broken off and it is highly unlikely that he will give them Boys or Girls Final Four playoff assignments in the near term. Any younger reff in this association is basically screwed out of a chance to call the Final Four
4) If any member school is unsatisfied with the new association and chooses to break their contract (which is very common) and go back to the Lafayette Association, the new association wont have enough member schools, will be disbanded by the LHSAA and all of those reffs will be without an officiating job.

I was contacted by the assignment secretary for our association and he asked me where I stood on all of this. I am basically neutral and have close friends on both sides. However I told my secretary that I am loyal to the association I started with and it sounds like I just moved up at least 6 places on the totem pole.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

18 hrs of instruction EVERY YEAR??

If so that is plain nuts.

Dan:

I lived in Glendale, Calf. from 1982 until 1984 and was a member of the San Gabriel Valley Unit of the Southern Calf. Bkb. Off. Assn. for the 82-83 and 83-84 season. And the requirements that SoCalRef goes through every year we in place even then. I had been officiating basketball since 1971 and thought the requirements were great for H.S. officiating and still think that they are great for H.S. officiating. IAABO states have a mandatory yearly exam and meeting requirements too. I can honestly say that every game I officiated in Calf., I officiated with a partner who really knew his stuff. Here in Ohio I have officiated varsity games with officials that I would not want to officiate a jr. H.S. game with and it is even worse with many officials from Michigan.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. When I was in Calf. I was evaluated anywhere from 6 to 8 times a year and these evaluations determined whether you officiated in the CIF tournament or not and whether you stayed a varsity official or were dropped down to JV and FR ball.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I can honestly say that every game I officiated in Calf., I officiated with a partner who really knew his stuff.

Geeze, you didn't see that recent Mater Dei game, did you?

Of course, maybe those guys weren't third year officials. They might have been 10, 20 or 30 year officials and weren't qualified to do that game anymore.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Hey EGSDOTU, didn't you hear the guy say that he and the rest of the people in his association are THE best in the COUNTRY? Isn't that enough for you?

Who am I to argue with a denizen of The Land Of College And Above?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by socalreff

No. They are not part of the 18 hours. I was merely pointing out all the other opportunities there are to improve.
To be qualified to work any high school game the 18 hours of classroom instruction are required

I can see this requirement for the first three or even five years. After that, however, the law of diminishing returns is bound to kick in and you're bound to be wasting the time of a lot of veteran officials.

My point earlier was that you cannot use "knowing the rules" as a basis for an undending annual requirement for 18 hours of classroom instruction.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Dan:

I lived in Glendale, Calf. from 1982 until 1984 and was a member of the San Gabriel Valley Unit of the Southern Calf. Bkb. Off. Assn. for the 82-83 and 83-84 season. And the requirements that SoCalRef goes through every year we in place even then. I had been officiating basketball since 1971 and thought the requirements were great for H.S. officiating and still think that they are great for H.S. officiating. IAABO states have a mandatory yearly exam and meeting requirements too. I can honestly say that every game I officiated in Calf., I officiated with a partner who really knew his stuff. Here in Ohio I have officiated varsity games with officials that I would not want to officiate a jr. H.S. game with and it is even worse with many officials from Michigan.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. When I was in Calf. I was evaluated anywhere from 6 to 8 times a year and these evaluations determined whether you officiated in the CIF tournament or not and whether you stayed a varsity official or were dropped down to JV and FR ball.

Mark, I noticed you refrained from using the words "best", "officials", "in", "the" and "country" in your post. We all have to attend meetings, we all get formal & informal training, we all take tests, we all get evaluated, we all move up & get dropped. Some of us do this for more than just 1 or even 2 associations. All but one of us can control themselves enough to not use the words in my list.

btw, I too lived in SoCal during the 80's and my experience with their basketball officials was spotty at best - but I wouldn't go so far as to say they are the worst in the country.

Opinions, we all have one. :shrug: