state finals games- selecting refs

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

LOL. That's some of the best "stir stick" work I've seen!

Who? Me?

[lpbreeze]

I didn't care who won. I did ask two veteran officials who watched the game and they also weren't too high on the officials. I did say the guy who did the game was a good official but for some reason they called an extremely tight game and it became a big part of the story instead of two teams that are among the best in the nation. Teams that get to the state finals know what they are doing but in the game about 60 fouls get called. State finals games should not be called that tight especially when there was not dirty play going on.
I asked a question about a coach getting a T during a halftime talk a while back and I thought about that when a coach at halftime was ripping the refs on tv as they walked in the background. I don't think they heard though.
But my first question was do they pick refs all over the state or ones who are used to working together. ...last post as I don't want this to turn into that other thread ..

[Adam]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

I did ask two veteran officials who watched the game and they also weren't too high on the officials.

Those two officials should be drawn and quartered; either for stupidity or hubris.

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

State finals games should not be called that tight especially when there was not dirty play going on.

Apparently there are at least three state-final-level officials who disagree with you.

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

But my first question was do they pick refs all over the state or ones who are used to working together...

I guess the answer to your question will vary from State to State. Here in CO we don't use the same crews throughout the regular season or the post season. This year the 4A boys Finals used officials from 3 different cities & the 5A boys Finals used 2 from the city & 1 from CO Springs.

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

I did ask two veteran officials who watched the game and they also weren't too high on the officials.

Perhaps they wished that they were working the game? We had some of those same types of officials watching the Finals here too. I will share with you the same advice that I received "do not to engage in that kind of conversation with them" PERIOD.
Although it does exist, but there's no room in officiating for envy & jealousy.

JMO, networking, building relationships & being likeable will get one much farther than the negative characteristics.

[budjones05]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

Teams that get to the state finals know what they are doing
..

If someone officiate the state finals, they too, know what they are doing

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

...Teams that get to the state finals know what they are doing but in the game about 60 fouls get called. State finals games should not be called that tight especially when there was not dirty play going on...

Maybe there was no dirty play going on because the game was being called tightly.

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

...But my first question was do they pick refs all over the state or ones who are used to working together...

Obviously each state has its own process. How bout telling us the state so someone with knowledge of that state's policies/procedures can intelligently answer that question.

[lpbreeze]

yah, it may have been that the refs were looking to prove themselves and show good technique instead of calling games how they usually do. Because both teams have such good post players and half court sets the game was physical.

---extra
The McClymonds of Oakland vs. Dominguez-Compton div. 1 game was a blast to watch on tv last night (replay). The Mater Dei game was the night before and I think the refs may have heard the criticism of how that game was called so in the div 1 game a lot less fouls were called and the game had a great flow to it. I would say it was an easier game to officiate but there were many instances of plays that were called fouls in the Mater Dei game but were not in the div 1 game. I'm a bit shocked but McClymonds is the best team in the State.



- that Compton player needed to stop SHOOTING NBA THREES! it was at Arco Arena

[Adam]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

yah, it may have been that the refs were looking to prove themselves and show good technique instead of calling games how they usually do. ...

I think the refs may have heard the criticism of how that game was called so in the div 1 game a lot less fouls were called and the game had a great flow to it. I would say it was an easier game to officiate but there were many instances of plays that were called fouls in the Mater Dei game but were not in the div 1 game.

Unreal.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

yah, it may have been that the refs were looking to prove themselves and show good technique instead of calling games how they usually do.

It also may be that you don't have the knowledge or experience to evaluate officials at ANY level. Of course, that never does stop you from crapping all over them.

Back-stabbing integrity-lacking scumbag.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by socalreff

Just wondering.... Have you ever seen a poorly officiated contest?

Yes, in many a Rec League...and the officiating was still better than the caliber of play.

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

yah, it may have been that the refs were looking to prove themselves and show good technique instead of calling games how they usually do.

That doesn't make sense! Prove themselves? The fact that they got the gig means they have arrived. Why would anyone stray from what got you the assignment in the first place? Maybe they called tight games all year. It might have something to do with them being picked in the first place.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

That doesn't make sense! Prove themselves? The fact that they got the gig means they have arrived. Why would anyone stray from what got you the assignment in the first place? Maybe they called tight games all year. It might have something to do with them being picked in the first place.

What you have here is a first-year official who has never worked a varsity high school game in his life critiquing an obviously veteran crew picked for the state championships. If you look at his original post, his learned evaluation of this crew consists of "poorly officiated", "phantom fouls" and "whistle happy". What does that tell you about this particular poster?

Note that this isn't the first time that he's come on here and crapped all over officials in the exact same manner either.

Just another scumbag troll imo......

[lpbreeze]

whatever. huge difference in the div 1 and div 2 games and how they were called. Nothing to do with angles which I could see led to missed calls in the Stanford/UCLA game. There were simply bunch of calls that were wrong or should not have been called and replay clearly showed that. Excuse me as a fan of basketball but I wanted to see two great teams battle it out and have the best team win. Instead Mater Dei wins and I'm not convinced they are the best team because of the way the game was called. They were the best last year when the same teams played. In the div 1 game the best team clearly won.

last post really- perhaps all 4 teams will be nationally ranked in the top 20 which is great for California albeit national rankings for h.s. are a bit pointless.

I have learned some from JR and others who helped me on some of the questions I've asked and I'm thankful. But I've learned to make my own calls and if an more experienced disagrees with me well that is their problem. I've had them before the game try to get me to call a tight game or let them play and I've found that isn't the way to go. luckily most of my partners have been more in the middle and it has worked out.


edit- Communication, technique, dealing with coaches, position, and rules are things I listen to the more experienced refs. But I will take my judgment during a game over most of them. I know I will miss calls but as an official I don't want to change how teams play and that is what I saw during the State championship game.

((Rec games are so funny. I want to record some and make a best of list. ))) final

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

yah, it may have been that the refs were looking to prove themselves and show good technique instead of calling games how they usually do. Because both teams have such good post players and half court sets the game was physical.

More likely is the teams were over-hyped and trying to prove themselves and that led to a game that had a lot of fouls.

It's really not that difficult. Every one of us has been in a game where the flow (or lack thereof) was dictated by players who couldn't play within the rules.

You strike me as one who may not have experienced a game like that, and figure that any time 60 fouls are called it's the officials' fault. That, or you are a backstabbing scumbag as suggested above.

[jbduke]

Do you guys honestly believe that name-calling is going to help this kid develop some insight into some of the problems with his comments? You completely cede the high-road when you call anyone a "backstabbing, integrity-lacking scumbage" or whatever it was.

If anything, you're only driving him more securely into his probably-preconceived notion that he already knows a lot and everybody on this board who disagrees is just an old fart.

If he's not going to take the mentoring advice offered him a couple of pages back, either keep trying to give it or ignore him, but for cripes sake don't let the guy drag you into the adolescent gutter.