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  #61 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 05, 2008, 02:15pm
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The politicians will fix it!

House Speaker Pro Tem Doug Smith and Rep. Harold Mitchell's bill would require the South Carolina High School League to use instant replay to resolve disputed plays in football and basketball playoff games.

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http://sjweb.ny.publicus.com/article...803050366/1011
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 05, 2008, 02:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larks
The politicians will fix it!

House Speaker Pro Tem Doug Smith and Rep. Harold Mitchell's bill would require the South Carolina High School League to use instant replay to resolve disputed plays in football and basketball playoff games.

More
http://sjweb.ny.publicus.com/article...803050366/1011
Oh man...talk about problems. Hopefully this bill dies a quiet death.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 05, 2008, 02:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larks
We need frame 10 1/2. Bearing in mind that the light isn't relevant under NFHS rules and we also don't know if the light is fully synchronized with the horn, the call couldn't be closer. I don't think that I could fault the official's on this one, no matter what call they made.

Tough, tough call.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 05, 2008, 02:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
We need frame 10 1/2. Bearing in mind that the light isn't relevant under NFHS rules and we also don't know if the light is fully synchronized with the horn, the call couldn't be closer. I don't think that I could fault the official's on this one, no matter what call they made.

Tough, tough call.
Well said and obviously light travels faster than sound, so naturally we are going to see the light a fraction of a second before hearing the horn. Nice job of once again emphasizing that the light is NOT the controlling factor for this call in a HS game. I seriously doubt that the news media and people reading most of the stories know that fact.

Still that is one outstanding frame-by-frame photo sequence. This call was as close as a photo finish in a horse race. Imagine if the Kentucky Derby had to be called from the live action without access to such pictures! That's the situation that these officials were put in.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 05, 2008, 02:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
We need frame 10 1/2. Bearing in mind that the light isn't relevant under NFHS rules and we also don't know if the light is fully synchronized with the horn, the call couldn't be closer. I don't think that I could fault the official's on this one, no matter what call they made.

Tough, tough call.
I agree with your assessment 100%.

Peace
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 05, 2008, 02:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
We need frame 10 1/2. Bearing in mind that the light isn't relevant under NFHS rules and we also don't know if the light is fully synchronized with the horn, the call couldn't be closer. I don't think that I could fault the official's on this one, no matter what call they made.

Tough, tough call.
Yep. And I don't really care when the horn sounds on the video - it could be accurate, or it could be a 1/10 delay in recording the audio, or any number of other things.

Incredibly tough way to end a great state championship game. Other officials who I've talked to who watched it said it was extremely well officiated overall.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 05, 2008, 02:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socalreff
The ball was clearly in flight before the LED light and the horn.
Agreed ... The video shows the ball released before the LED and before the horn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by socalreff
Have you ever had a call that you thought you nailed and then looked at it on tape and were clearly wrong?
Exactly ... Saying that they missed it is not a rip on these officials. They are in a VERY tough spot with this call. This is why we have a monitor now in college - because of plays like this. If they had been able to go to a monitor they would have counted the shot, no doubt in my mind.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 05, 2008, 02:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
Exactly ... Saying that they missed it is not a rip on these officials.
Yep. And saying they missed it is completely different than saying they guessed.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 05, 2008, 02:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Yep. And saying they missed it is completely different than saying they guessed.
For sure.

I was reviewing a game tape just this week and saw a call that I make that I didn't like - I missed it.

The video at the NCAA meeting every year is made up of missed plays from the NCAA tournament, which arguably uses the best 96 NCAA officials in the country.

The NBA posts videos online every day for its officials - arguably the best in the world.

We miss plays. That doesn't mean that we are poor officials. If you referee for any significant length of time you are going to make a call that has a big impact on a game.
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 05, 2008, 03:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
We miss plays. That doesn't mean that we are poor officials. If you referee for any significant length of time you are going to make a call that has a big impact on a game.
The issue was not whether they only missed the play. The issue was that someone wanted to claim not only did they miss play, but they did not follow the rules properly as well. It is very possible they missed this play, but they did follow the rules as far as we know and took the time to get it right as well as they could. If this was an NCAA game, they likely would have been able to review the play to make sure. Also the angle would be very different and there would be better technologies to help get this call right. These officials had one shot and they did the best they could.

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  #71 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 05, 2008, 03:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
Agreed ... The video shows the ball released before the LED and before the horn.


Exactly ... Saying that they missed it is not a rip on these officials. They are in a VERY tough spot with this call. This is why we have a monitor now in college - because of plays like this. If they had been able to go to a monitor they would have counted the shot, no doubt in my mind.
Brad,
I guess my eyes are going....

I haven't seen anything...regular speed....slow motion...or even frame by frame, that shows the ball "clearly" away from the shooters hand before the light/horn goes off.

In fact, the frame by frame pics shows the blurry ball and the blurry shooting hand, with his fingers POINTING back at him in the classic shooting pose, in frame 10. I just don't see the ball away from the hand "clearly" in that frame.

Sure, the next frame has the ball away...but, the light is already on.

Again, I haven't seen/heard any clear evidence that the ball is away and the light on....or horn sounded.

I'm with JR...tough call...can't fault officials either way.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 05, 2008, 04:01pm
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Looks like....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larks
he is still touching the ball with his fingers in frame 10
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 05, 2008, 04:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RookieDude
I haven't seen anything...regular speed....slow motion...or even frame by frame, that shows the ball "clearly" away from the shooters hand before the light/horn goes off.

In fact, the frame by frame pics shows the blurry ball and the blurry shooting hand, with his fingers POINTING back at him in the classic shooting pose, in frame 10. I just don't see the ball away from the hand "clearly" in that frame.

Sure, the next frame has the ball away...but, the light is already on.

Again, I haven't seen/heard any clear evidence that the ball is away and the light on....or horn sounded.
That's my take on the frame-to-frame sequence too. I could review that and I don't think that I could really make a definitive call, one way or another. Iow, damned if they do, damned if they don't.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 05, 2008, 04:14pm
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There are cameras behind the play. There has to be more video of this. Either way I really hope they bring out instant replay for the championships games. Do it like Football. Need evidence to overturn it. It would be nice to know what the initial ruling was
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 05, 2008, 04:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpbreeze
There are cameras behind the play. There has to be more video of this. Either way I really hope they bring out instant replay for the championships games. Do it like Football. Need evidence to overturn it. It would be nice to know what the initial ruling was
The original ruling was that the shot was no good. It was waved off immediately, then the officials conferred, and they stuck with the original ruling.

And I want no part of instant replay. This is a prime example of getting frame-by-frame evidence that still doesn't give you the needed picture.
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