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Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 04:45pm
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Charge Call Did I get it right?

Well I took some heat last night over a charge call. We play FIBA rules.

Ball carrier came hard to the basket, took the shot and then came hard into the defender. It was a charge plain and simple, uncontestable.

BUT, the shot was before the charge and it went in. So I allowed the basket and charged the ball carrier with a charge.

Am I right?
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Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 05:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riden
Well I took some heat last night over a charge call. We play FIBA rules.

Ball carrier came hard to the basket, took the shot and then came hard into the defender. It was a charge plain and simple, uncontestable.

BUT, the shot was before the charge and it went in. So I allowed the basket and charged the ball carrier with a charge.

Am I right?
Did the shooter land prior to hitting the defender?
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Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 05:13pm
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No he didn't
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Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 05:17pm
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Someone who knows FIBA will have to answer, but I can tell you in US high school rules, this basket should not count. On a player control foul, the ball becomes dead immediately and no basket can be scored.

Again, however, someone who knows FIBA rules will need to confirm whether it's the same or different.
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Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 05:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riden
Well I took some heat last night over a charge call. We play FIBA rules.

Ball carrier came hard to the basket, took the shot and then came hard into the defender. It was a charge plain and simple, uncontestable.

BUT, the shot was before the charge and it went in. So I allowed the basket and charged the ball carrier with a charge.

Am I right?
Yes, but it should not be signaled as a charge, because the player didn't have control of the ball any more (use the push signal and DON'T do the punch). If the ball is in the air for a try, a foul doesn't cause it to become dead, independent on who commits the foul. If the offended team is in the bonus, shoot 2 FT at the other basket.

In these situations, allow the basket only if there is no doubt whatsoever that the ball left the shooter's hands before the contact. In doubt, call a charge and disallow the basket.

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Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 05:44pm
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So, an airborne shooter is not considered in control of the ball?

This is in line with NCAA men, but not inline with NFHS. Interesting.
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Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 05:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
So, an airborne shooter is not considered in control of the ball?

This is in line with NCAA men, but not inline with NFHS. Interesting.
The airborne shooter is considered in the act of shooting until both feet touch the ground, but not in control of the ball when it leaves the shooter's hands.

I guess it's the same as in NCAA. Personally, I like better NFHS, in this case.

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Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 06:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eg-italy
Yes, but it should not be signaled as a charge, because the player didn't have control of the ball any more (use the push signal and DON'T do the punch). If the ball is in the air for a try, a foul doesn't cause it to become dead, independent on who commits the foul. If the offended team is in the bonus, shoot 2 FT at the other basket.

In these situations, allow the basket only if there is no doubt whatsoever that the ball left the shooter's hands before the contact. In doubt, call a charge and disallow the basket.

Ciao
My understanding of FIBA is that you punch your hand for PC fouls, and punch in B's direction for team control fouls. When you say don't punch, which punch are you speaking of?
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Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 06:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eg-italy
Yes, but it should not be signaled as a charge, because the player didn't have control of the ball any more (use the push signal and DON'T do the punch). If the ball is in the air for a try, a foul doesn't cause it to become dead, independent on who commits the foul. If the offended team is in the bonus, shoot 2 FT at the other basket.

In these situations, allow the basket only if there is no doubt whatsoever that the ball left the shooter's hands before the contact. In doubt, call a charge and disallow the basket.

Ciao
That's good advice, thanks
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Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 08:11pm
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Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
My understanding of FIBA is that you punch your hand for PC fouls, and punch in B's direction for team control fouls. When you say don't punch, which punch are you speaking of?
I'd say both, since it was neither team control nor player control.
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Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 09:42pm
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For any offensive foul you use the "punch" signal. If you have a shooter who shoots and crashes AFTER the ball is released, signal with punch first and then push signal after. If the ball is released prior to the crash you count it. It does not matter if both feet have not touched the ground. If the player releases the ball after the contact, there is no shot, waive it off and take to the side line. Use only the punch signal and move on.
If there is a pass and crash, the "punch" signal is used along with push. It does not matter if both feet were in the air or not.
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Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 09:48pm
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Originally Posted by gottaluvhoops
For any offensive foul you use the "punch" signal. If you have a shooter who shoots and crashes AFTER the ball is released, signal with punch first and then push signal after. If the ball is released prior to the crash you count it. It does not matter if both feet have not touched the ground. If the player releases the ball after the contact, there is no shot, waive it off and take to the side line. Use only the punch signal and move on.
If there is a pass and crash, the "punch" signal is used along with push. It does not matter if both feet were in the air or not.
According to the distinguished official from Italy (posts 5 and 7), once the shot is released it is no longer an offensive foul; therefore there should be no punching.
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Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 09:52pm
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In Canada, that is what we do. We are not using the "true" FIBA mechanics and if we were then we would be using the fist on player control fouls and clenched fist into palm of hand for charging fouls. We have modified the signals slightly.
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Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 09:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gottaluvhoops
In Canada, that is what we do. We are not using the "true" FIBA mechanics and if we were then we would be using the fist on player control fouls and clenched fist into palm of hand for charging fouls. We have modified the signals slightly.
Interesting.
Here's a question. Does Fiba use the same bonus free throw principals NFHS uses? IOW, if a team is in the bonus, do they shoot free throws on player control fouls? How about team control (offensive) fouls?

In the situation where an airborne shooter releases the shot then crashes into a defender, would you shoot bonus free throws? What if the shooter landed and then crashed into the defender?
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Old Fri Feb 29, 2008, 03:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Interesting.
Here's a question. Does Fiba use the same bonus free throw principals NFHS uses? IOW, if a team is in the bonus, do they shoot free throws on player control fouls? How about team control (offensive) fouls?

In the situation where an airborne shooter releases the shot then crashes into a defender, would you shoot bonus free throws? What if the shooter landed and then crashed into the defender?
There are no free throws on team control common fouls, for which the signal is: fist in the air and then punch in the direction of the fouling team's basket (the team's basket for FIBA is the one where the opponents shoot).

There is team control during throw-ins. After a try for goal there is no team control, so the punching signal must not be used, as it means "team control foul" and implies "no free throws" if in the bonus.

So if an airborne shooter releases the ball and then crashes into a defender, that defender will shoot free throws (if their team is in the bonus) and the basket is allowed.

The clenched fist against open palm can be used only on player control foul.

In the case of team (so also player) control foul the proper sequence is: 1. fist in the air; 2. punch; 3. bird-dogging; 4. report number of player and foul type. Between 2 and 3 it can be necessary to wave off a basket.

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