Correctable Error

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

And I *still* can't get over that I don't have to rewind the DVD before taking it back to Blockbuster.

So you make the poor kid working part-time at Blockbuster rewind it for you.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by CoachP

What was the problem there? All sports photos need flash indoors.

Not true any more. A few weeks ago, a local newspaper sports photographer showed me his new, high speed, SLR, digital camera. With no flash, he photographed the players in the layup line before my game, and showed me the results. Real stop action. No blurred image. And, again, no flash. I believe he said that it cost him a few thousand dollars.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

So you make the poor kid working part-time at Blockbuster rewind it for you.

They charge me the $2, I pay it. The kid should be thanking me!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by CoachP

What was the problem there? All sports photos need flash indoors.

Not true...there are a few indoor sports where flash is strictly prohibited (e.g. gymnastics). For others, you're too far for flash to be of much use. (For compact cameras...maybe 15 feet. For DSLR's with external strobes, maybe 50 ft.). If it was a fan, chances are the flash was on a compact camera and completely useless.

Also, flash often imparts a very flat and harsh look to photos. For subjects in the photo at different distances, it lights them up completely differently...one too bright, the other too dark.

To get a fast enough shutter to freeze the action with available light, it helps to have a modern DSLR that can do high ISO without encountering too much noise and also have a fast (large aperture) lens.

Some examples of what can be done without flash...

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d3/example-images.htm

http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcbo..._id=18225&page=

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=26548248

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not true...there are a few indoor sports where flash is strictly prohibited (e.g. gymnastics). For others, you're too far for flash to be of much use. (For compact cameras...maybe 15 feet. For DSLR's with external strobes, maybe 50 ft.). If it was a fan, chances are the flash was on a compact camera and completely useless.

Also, flash often imparts a very flat and harsh look to photos. For subjects in the photo at different distances, it lights them up completely differently...one too bright, the other too dark.

To get a fast enough shutter to freeze the action with available light, it helps to have a modern DSLR that can do high ISO without encountering too much noise and also have a fast (large aperture) lens.

Some examples of what can be done without flash...

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d3/example-images.htm

http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcbo..._id=18225&page=

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=26548248

Thanks for the lesson.....but, my degree is in Portrait/Commercial Photography. And I'll change my comment just for you.

"Most" sports photos by mortals need flash indoors.

The OP, I'm sure isn't a SI photog with unlimited resources.

The hockey shot, while nice, is done with a $5k camera and a $2K lens in a controlled "studio" setting. Meaning lights, actors, cameras and I'm sure, hundreds of takes. And let's not forget the $9k F2.8 300 mm lenses for the football games.

So are todays cameras capable? Yes. Is the average person (or even an above average) in the stands with a flash at a HS/MS game holding $7k worth of equipment in his/her hands? Doubt it.

When I shoot a game, I want as much pure light as possible. Every gym is different (mercury, sodium vapor, flourescent, etc.) so I "bounce" a white lightning off the ceilings. No harsh light, no flat flash effect, the whole gym is lit, no funny colors that I have to sit and photoshop all night long and the color is rich.....and NO ONE is even aware a flash is going off..

Just to clarify...

In the OP, the basket scored by Team B will still count, correct?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Raida357

Just to clarify...

In the OP, the basket scored by Team B will still count, correct?

Yes.

[Cajun Reff]

Originally Posted by kmw

Here we go....

A1 is fouled. A inbounds ball and then ball is stolen by B3- A coach is yelling at me that we missed the bonus - team b subsequently scores and I kill the clock. Yes, we should have shot the bonus. Error is correctable since it was found before the first dead ball becomes live - we go and shoot bonus. But this is where my partner and I have different opinions. IMO, a) we shoot bonus with no one on lane and then A gets the ball on the baseline in backcourt since I killed the clock after B made shot- b) my partner feels strongly that we shoot bonus with teams on the lane and play on from that point. I know that the basket by Team B counts no matter what. Whats correct ruling?

Second - A coach is upset because I didn't kill the clock right away during fast break. I have nothing to look at because I am trail and scoreboard is behind me and table is doing nothing... nothing - I explain that I waited to get a look at scoreboard. Whats the best thing to say here? IMO, the scorer/timer failed (after I failed for not noticing bonus) and they could have sounded horn...

With that said - if it wasn't correctable Team A coach would lose a timeout, right?

this exact situation was on the Louisiana test and we discussed it ad nauseum in our test study group. Your assessment was correct, after the FTs it goes back to POI and play resumes. Ironically enough I had this exact situation in a BJV game with two HS kids on the clock/book/table and precious little game management help. My partner and I remembered the study group discussion and got it right but it got pretty hairy with the JV coach that disagreed with our decision.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by CoachP

Thanks for the lesson.....but, my degree is in Portrait/Commercial Photography. And I'll change my comment just for you.

"Most" sports photos by mortals need flash indoors.

And "most" will have a compact camera and be too far from the action for the flash to matter. So, while they may need a flash, the flash they have is not effective.

Originally Posted by CoachP

The OP, I'm sure isn't a SI photog with unlimited resources.

The hockey shot, while nice, is done with a $5k camera and a $2K lens in a controlled "studio" setting. Meaning lights, actors, cameras and I'm sure, hundreds of takes. And let's not forget the $9k F2.8 300 mm lenses for the football games.

All true, but some of the ones I referenced were not with a $5k camera but with a camera around $1.8k...still expensive but not as bad. I've seen several shots with <$1k cameras with no flash that are still quite respectable. For examle, you could get a Nikon D40x with a 50mm f1.4 and get some pretty good shots...all for about $700-800 (I'm sure Canon has comparable too).

Originally Posted by CoachP

So are todays cameras capable? Yes. Is the average person (or even an above average) in the stands with a flash at a HS/MS game holding $7k worth of equipment in his/her hands? Doubt it.

And the one they have has such a weak flash it doesn't even add any light to that subject 25-40 feet away.

Originally Posted by CoachP

When I shoot a game, I want as much pure light as possible. Every gym is different (mercury, sodium vapor, flourescent, etc.) so I "bounce" a white lightning off the ceilings. No harsh light, no flat flash effect, the whole gym is lit, no funny colors that I have to sit and photoshop all night long and the color is rich.....and NO ONE is even aware a flash is going off..

Agree, but that is probably a studio type strobe (I've got a pair of Alien Bees) that, while it is not horribly expensive, how to use them is beyond the knowledge of most users.

I've got just a few of my shots posted on smugmug if anyone cares to see some of them... http://cbrust.smugmug.com/. Most of my shots there, however, are in private (hidden) gallerys since I photograph a lot of pre-teen sports and I only allow the parents of the teams access....not wanting to post pictures of their kids to the public.

[ref2coach]

Camron, You have a very good eye. Thanks for posting the link.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

If I am not mistaken in FIBA rules had this been the situation and A was able to score a basket before the mistake was corrected, then the Free Throws are ignored and the basket is counted. No opportunity to get the extra points on an error.

I'm just thinking out loud here so don't be upset I am refering to FIBA....

Finally! A FIBA rule that I like better than the NFHS version.

I knew there had to be one in there somewhere.