Bktballref and all please look at this

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Self
Is a player in control of a ball when he is spinning it on his finger. I say yes, but he is not holding or dribbling.... Again it goes back to judgement, every word for control can not be established. Back to Bob statement which you agreed with, "hand under ball he has control", I have no problem with this. But he never said he was holding the ball. Only that he felt that hand under ball established control.

In my opinion, if a player allows the ball to come to rest with hie hand under it, the ball is spinning on his finger, or the ball is spinning in his hand, he is holding it. Nowhere have I said or have I ever read that the ball had to be at a stop for it to be held. Read JR's post below. He makes a correct comparison below about palming and the ball coming to rest.

Have you ever officiated volleyball? The same situation exists. As long as the player is using finger action to bat the ball, she has not held it. But if the hand is under the ball and she lifts it, she has held it. This sitation is no different.

This was said 30 posts ago. That I felt the player has established control. The argument was he has to be holding or dribbling. You just agreed that hand under ball establishes control. Bob Jenkins never said he was holding it, never siad the ball came to rest.

Yes, I did agree with Bob and I've explained why above. And you didn't say this 30 posts ago. This is only your second post in this thread, on the same page as your first. If you're referring to zimp, on the other board, I gotta tell you: I don't always read zimp posts.

[Slider]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
While I agree this should be a violation, please tell me that you're not going to start using this in your games!!

Coach: How was that a travel?
Slider: He dragged the ball, coach.
C: Dragged the ball? What f*#&ing rule is that?
S: 11-2 in my rulebook. [/B]

Is that better than:

Coach: How was that a travel?
Mark: He did something that I agree is a violation.
C: What f*#&ing rule is that?
M: 11-2 in my rulebook.

----------------

It seems we need some term for this kind of control; we wouldn't be having this stupid argument about control if "dragging" were defined in the Rules Book.

[Edited by Slider on Feb 25th, 2002 at 11:21 AM]

[crew]

guys look at the big picture and do not microdot this play. call the original scenario a travel and be done with it. this play is only difficult if you make it difficult.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by crew
guys look at the big picture and do not microdot this play. call the original scenario a travel and be done with it. this play is only difficult if you make it difficult.

Ah,the legendary "BIG PICTURE"!So far,crew,you have:
(a)told us to change a foul call from the player that actually committed it to a player who didn't do anything.
(b)told us to ignore specifically written rules on what is a travel.
I can hardly wait for the next installment of the "BIG PICTURE"!

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Slider

Is that better than:

Coach: How was that a travel?
Mark: He did something that I agree is a violation.
C: What f*#&ing rule is that?
M: 11-2 in my rulebook.
[Edited by Slider on Feb 25th, 2002 at 11:21 AM] [/B]

Uh, zimp/slider, note that my message stated that this should be a violation - not that it actually is!

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Ah,the legendary "BIG PICTURE"!So far,crew,you have:
(a)told us to change a foul call from the player that actually committed it to a player who didn't do anything.
(b)told us to ignore specifically written rules on what is a travel.
I can hardly wait for the next installment of the "BIG PICTURE"!

Don't forget (c) slapping the backboard while the ball is on the rim is BI.

[Self]

Overall this is semantics, Bob never said palming he never said ball comes to rest. He merely said hand under ball. Yet some are agreeing that this established control. He never said it came to rest. You can have hand under the ball and only touching it with your fingertips while tapping it slightly up in teh air.

But to end this and to help everyone feel I am not missusing rule 2-3. I will determine in the play I described when the ball rested on the fingertips for .1 second that at that .1 second he began the act of holding and now he has control. No it may not be on the first or second tap, or ever. But in some cases that .1 second on the fingertips will be enough for me to rule the player now has control... It will be my judgement... Now I can call a travel. So I hope we are fine now.....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Self
Overall this is semantics, Bob never said palming he never said ball comes to rest. He merely said hand under ball. Yet some are agreeing that this established control. He never said it came to rest. You can have hand under the ball and only touching it with your fingertips while tapping it slightly up in teh air.

But to end this and to help everyone feel I am not missusing rule 2-3. I will determine in the play I described when the ball rested on the fingertips for .1 second that at that .1 second he began the act of holding and now he has control. No it may not be on the first or second tap, or ever. But in some cases that .1 second on the fingertips will be enough for me to rule the player now has control... It will be my judgement... Now I can call a travel. So I hope we are fine now.....

Self,that was all that we were trying to tell you.As soon as you determine player contol,the player is bound by the travelling and dribbling rules.Hopefully this mother is now buried forever!

[ReadyToRef]

Newbie. Lost. Zimp is Slider. TH is BstBallRef. There's another forum. Where is it? And I know that it's not possible that it's as good as this one.

[mick]

Originally posted by ReadyToRef
Newbie. Lost. Zimp is Slider. TH is BstBallRef. There's another forum. Where is it? And I know that it's not possible that it's as good as this one.

They both have their "charm".
The other is more ....
You'll understand.


http://www.gmcgriff.com/refonline/

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by mick

They both have their "charm".
The other is more ....
You'll understand.

Oh, boy, mick's starting on the poetry!

[ReadyToRef]

They both have their "charm". The other is more ....
You'll understand.

The other is not nearly as easy to navigate or am I missing something?

[coach mb]

Originally posted by ReadyToRef
They both have their "charm". The other is more ....
You'll understand.

The other is not nearly as easy to navigate or am I missing something?

You're not missing anything. The other is out-a-control and it has nothing to do with the navigation.

I did have a few good laughs though. The responses to Mark D's website were priceless!

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by mick
Additional closing arguments will be over there.
mick

BTW, you're "mick" on that other board right? Yeah, took
a while, but I finally figured it out. Cagey, real cagey.

[mick]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

BTW, you're "mick" on that other board right? Yeah, took
a while, but I finally figured it out. Cagey, real cagey.

Dan,
Yeah, it doesn't matter which board.
2x4, 1x6, 3x12, Glu Lams, TJIs.
As Danny Glover said, "Nailed 'im."
mick