6 Men on the Floor

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

If he knows a kid is gonna be late, then it's the coach's repsonsibility to make sure that player is listed properly in the book prior to the start of the game, even though they're not there yet.

That was my point. If you're counting the players, then how can you account for any players that are late, in the dressing room, etc.?

[loners4me]

Now I'm interested/confused.

Jurassic, so do you just wait for a book keeping error to be brought to your attention?

Man, I always count pre-game.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by loners4me

Jurassic, so do you just wait for a book keeping error to be brought to your attention?

Yes.

And if one does get brought to my attention, I don't blame myself either.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That was my point. If you're counting the players, then how can you account for any players that are late, in the dressing room, etc.?

You can't...As I said previously, checking the book doesn't totally eliminate the possibility of a player not being listed, but this is good preventative officiating at the very least.

I wish I had my rule book with me, because I could swear it's in there. I'm looking all over the web for an online rule book...anybody know a site that hosts one?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by loners4me

Now I'm interested/confused.

Jurassic, so do you just wait for a book keeping error to be brought to your attention?

Man, I always count pre-game.

What can you do about it before the game anyway? When you check the book at 10:00, if a player isn't listed what difference does it make? They can't change the book right then without a T. If they don't change the book then, you penalize it when that player checks into the game - again, the same whether you count or not.

I know officials who count and I know officials who don't. I did when I started because other officials I was with did. Now I don't, because I just don't really care to add anything else to the process, and I finally figured out that it didn't matter whether the number of players matched.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I never counted the players pre-game in my life. It's the team's job to supply a correct roster and starters. It's the scorer's job to enter the team rosters and starting lineups as given into the book. It's the officials job to react if either the team or the scorer fails to do their jobs properly.

If somebody screws up pre-game, it ain't the officials' fault. It's also nonsense imo to place any blame at all for a pre-game screw-up on the officials.

At least here, it's SOP. Call it preventive officiating. And, while it can't repvent all problems, it can prevent some. :shrug:

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I never counted the players pre-game in my life. It's the team's job to supply a correct roster and starters. It's the scorer's job to enter the team rosters and starting lineups as given into the book. It's the officials job to react if either the team or the scorer fails to do their jobs properly.

If somebody screws up pre-game, it ain't the officials' fault. It's also nonsense imo to place any blame at all for a pre-game screw-up on the officials.

Who's placing blame? Why does counting the players prior to the 10 minute mark imply the officials have assumed any blame?

[mick]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I never counted the players pre-game in my life. It's the team's job to supply a correct roster and starters. It's the scorer's job to enter the team rosters and starting lineups as given into the book. It's the officials job to react if either the team or the scorer fails to do their jobs properly.

If somebody screws up pre-game, it ain't the officials' fault. It's also nonsense imo to place any blame at all for a pre-game screw-up on the officials.

I bet you do, or did..

Officials Manual : Pre-game duties

2-whistle Referee duty 9 Verify number of team members and starters.
3-whistle U1 and U2 duty 5. Home and visitor Verification.

[MadCityRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I never counted the players pre-game in my life. It's the team's job to supply a correct roster and starters. It's the scorer's job to enter the team rosters and starting lineups as given into the book. It's the officials job to react if either the team or the scorer fails to do their jobs properly.

If somebody screws up pre-game, it ain't the officials' fault. It's also nonsense imo to place any blame at all for a pre-game screw-up on the officials.

So, just how many times have you had a T for a bad book?

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

At least here, it's SOP. Call it preventive officiating. And, while it can't repvent all problems, it can prevent some. :shrug:

Same here. Never have prevented a problem though. The most common thing is more numbers in book then players.

Also a unwritten rule is that it's the officials fault if there is a book problem.

[FrankHtown]

Also a unwritten rule is that it's the officials fault if there is a book problem.

Amen.

Varsity G. We have the coaches sign/initial the official scorebook that names, numbers and starters are correct for their team.

3 minutes in, horn sounds. Incorrect number in the book. Coach tries to blame us. Sorry, here comes the T.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

Also a unwritten rule is that it's the officials fault if there is a book problem.

Amen.

Varsity G. We have the coaches sign/initial the official scorebook that names, numbers and starters are correct for their team.

3 minutes in, horn sounds. Incorrect number in the book. Coach tries to blame us. Sorry, here comes the T.

What unwritten rule is there that book problems are the officials fault? I've never heard that one.

6 players on the court? Sure. Book problem - definitely not.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

Also a unwritten rule is that it's the officials fault if there is a book problem.

Amen.

Varsity G. We have the coaches sign/initial the official scorebook that names, numbers and starters are correct for their team.

3 minutes in, horn sounds. Incorrect number in the book. Coach tries to blame us. Sorry, here comes the T.

Some tournaments that I do, the sheets are already filled out by a site convenor that likes to be organized. In these cases, I have the coach verify the lineup and make any changes needed.

[RefTip]

I agree it is a T..... Question though, this came up last year while I was watching our JV team play . Our team comes out of timeout and there are 6 players on the floor . Play continues for about 20 seconds and I guess our coach realizes this and calls timeout. The two officials did not realize there were 6 players until after the timeout was called and the players were going to the bench. They then called a technical on our team for having 6 players. I was sitting next to another official and we were trying to determine if this was correct since the ball was dead when the violation was realized. After looking through the rules book I believe they got it right but wanted to get confirmation.

Thanks

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by mick

I bet you do, or did..

Officials Manual : Pre-game duties

2-whistle Referee duty 9 Verify number of team members and starters.
3-whistle U1 and U2 duty 5. Home and visitor Verification.

Thanks, Mick. I was pretty sure that was in there (but I loaned out my officials manual).

In my mind, any kind of administrive errors that can reasonably be prevented should be. Who really wants to start a game with a T? But it's not the officials' fault if the book is wrong.