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Old Tue Feb 19, 2008, 09:45am
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6 Men on the Floor

I saw this in a high school game last night.

Ball was inbounded after a substitution. Offense dribbled to about halfcourt when the defensive coach mentioned to the officials that the offense had 6 players on the floor. No technical was called. Instead, the officials let the 6th player leave, started the play over and went on.

Was that the proper way to handle it or should a T have been called? If the official says "my mistake" does that negate the T? I thought it was odd.

Last edited by cshs81; Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:50am.
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Old Tue Feb 19, 2008, 09:56am
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It's a team technical foul. No mercy. There is no rules justification to do what they did.
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Old Tue Feb 19, 2008, 09:57am
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Should have been a T.
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Old Tue Feb 19, 2008, 10:03am
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I saw a Big South game on TV the other night. Visiting team player turns his ankle during a scrum which leads to a dead ball. Player is still struggling to get up at the same time multiple subs are coming in game, including one for injured player.

While injured player is still in front court the administering official allows throw-in. The player limps past the official right in front of the table during the live ball and the official, in an irritated manner, kinda pushes (or guides with his forearm) the player to get out of the way.
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Old Tue Feb 19, 2008, 10:21am
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While the refs should have counted players prior to inbounding the ball, I agree with....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
It's a team technical foul. No mercy. There is no rules justification to do what they did.
I had my more favorite call Saturday.....coach calls sub off the bench and the 13 yr old just runs onto the court in the middle of the play. TWEET! T. Coach is flabbergasted......
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Old Tue Feb 19, 2008, 10:22am
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Shame on the officials twice:

- First for allowing the ball to be put in play with 6 people on the court
- Second for not calling the T

When I wave in subs, I always keep my hand raised (open palm) to let my partner know I'm not ready for a live ball yet. I take a quick count of the number of players, and when I have 10...5 from each team...not 6 and 4 , I lower my hand, and we're ready to continue play.

I had a similar situation a few years ago. It was during a kids rec league game, we had a T for a player not being listed in the official book. Turns out that the team had 11 players on the bench, but only 10 listed. I don't want to speak for everyone, but I think it's safe to say that most people (again, not everyone), don't count the number of players for rec league ball. I always do for high school, but not youth league stuff. Anyway, I tell the coach we're going to have a T on his team for a player not listed. He says to me, "But aren't you supposed to verify the number of players prior to the start?" I told him "Yes coach I am...but as the head coach you're the one still ultimately responsible for getting all of your players listed in the book." Fortunately he agreed and left it at that. Shame on me for not counting the players, but we still ended up giving the T, as should have been done here with the 6 players on the court.
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Old Tue Feb 19, 2008, 10:27am
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I find that there is a much greater liklihood of having six players on the floor in youth rec league than in HS ball. Why would you not count players in rec ball? If nothing else it would maintain keep the habit of counting for when it's "important".
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Old Tue Feb 19, 2008, 10:34am
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I should've been more specific...I always count the number players on the court during a game at any level I officiate. I was referring to counting the number of players on each team, prior to the start of the game, to verify that they match the number of players in the scorebook. Again, I always do this in high school, but rarely for rec ball.
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Old Tue Feb 19, 2008, 10:45am
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Quote:
=ma_ref
It was during a kids rec league game, we had a T for a player not being listed in the official book. Turns out that the team had 11 players on the bench, but only 10 listed. I don't want to speak for everyone, but I think it's safe to say that most people (again, not everyone), don't count the number of players for rec league ball. I always do for high school, but not youth league stuff. Anyway, I tell the coach we're going to have a T on his team for a player not listed. He says to me, "But aren't you supposed to verify the number of players prior to the start?" I told him "Yes coach I am...but as the head coach you're the one still ultimately responsible for getting all of your players listed in the book." Fortunately he agreed and left it at that. Shame on me for not counting the players, but we still ended up giving the T, as should have been done here with the 6 players on the court.
You're supposed to verify the number of players on each team prior to the start?

I didn't know that. Where can I find that in the rules?
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Old Tue Feb 19, 2008, 10:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ma_ref
I was referring to counting the number of players on each team, prior to the start of the game, to verify that they match the number of players in the scorebook. Again, I always do this in high school, but rarely for rec ball.
What if a player is a little late getting there? Or a player is in the dressing room having a dump? Does your plan go down the dumper then too?

Let the scorer do his job.
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Old Tue Feb 19, 2008, 10:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
You're supposed to verify the number of players on each team prior to the start?

I didn't know that. Where can I find that in the rules?
Don't have my rule book in front of me to cite a rule, but doesn't everybody count the number of players prior to start and verify that the teams have at least that number of players in the book? I always assumed that was one of our pre-game responsibilities by rule. It helps to avoid, but doesn't totally prevent, the situation I got into where we had an administrative T for not having a player listed...
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Old Tue Feb 19, 2008, 10:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
What if a player is a little late getting there? Or a player is in the dressing room having a dump? Does your plan go down the dumper then too?

Let the scorer do his job.
"Let the scorer do his job" By this, do you mean do their job by adding the player to the book when they (the player) arrive? If so, this is a T. A coach should always be aware of the team he his putting forth that day. If he knows a kid is gonna be late, then it's the coach's repsonsibility to make sure that player is listed properly in the book prior to the start of the game, even though they're not there yet.

There is no penalty for having a player listed in the book who does not play, nor does that player even have to be present that day. But adding a player to the book, who is not listed, comes at the expense of a T.
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Old Tue Feb 19, 2008, 10:59am
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Cool 6 on floor - 0 on bench

A number of years ago I was coaching my daughters middle school game. I sent my only sub to the table to report. Dead ball happens, other coach calls timeout. Of course, when the time out ends and the ball is put in play, I sit back down on the bench only to realize I am all alone, and I'm out of timeouts.

The girls were up and down the floor two times before I had one of my girls close enough to the bench to tell her to get off the floor and onto the bench.

As soon as she sat down, I caught the eye of one of the officials who just realized what had happened. She gave me a wink and told me I got away with one-she didn't actually see the 6 girls on the floor.
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Old Tue Feb 19, 2008, 11:02am
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I do? What am I missing here?
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Old Tue Feb 19, 2008, 11:04am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ma_ref
Don't have my rule book in front of me to cite a rule, but doesn't everybody count the number of players prior to start and verify that the teams have at least that number of players in the book? I always assumed that was one of our pre-game responsibilities by rule. It helps to avoid, but doesn't totally prevent, the situation I got into where we had an administrative T for not having a player listed...
I never counted the players pre-game in my life. It's the team's job to supply a correct roster and starters. It's the scorer's job to enter the team rosters and starting lineups as given into the book. It's the officials job to react if either the team or the scorer fails to do their jobs properly.

If somebody screws up pre-game, it ain't the officials' fault. It's also nonsense imo to place any blame at all for a pre-game screw-up on the officials.
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