Traveling...

[Bearfanmike20]

Player has the ball.. is dribbling... falls down and traps ball on the floor with right hand. He fell on his knees and his left hand and has the ball trapped with his right.

He picks up the ball and tosses it to a team mate without leaving his knees.

He didn't roll, or scoot or anything.. just fell right down in the middle of a dribble.

I didn't call travel.. should I have??

[Jurassic Referee]

No.

He ended the dribble when he trapped the ball. He passed the ball without traveling. Legal play.

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

No.

He ended the dribble when he trapped the ball. He passed the ball without traveling. Legal play.

That is what I thought. Thanks.

[MOFFICIAL]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

Player has the ball.. is dribbling... falls down and traps ball on the floor with right hand. He fell on his knees and his left hand and has the ball trapped with his right.

He picks up the ball and tosses it to a team mate without leaving his knees.

He didn't roll, or scoot or anything.. just fell right down in the middle of a dribble.

I didn't call travel.. should I have??

I think case play 4.44.5 Situation C a is your play. Legal action.

[Coltdoggs]

Me and my guys in my kids rec league were debating this just this past Saturday...

One guy was on his high horse about any part of the body other than a hand or foot hitting the floor was a travel. I advised him that if the dribble was maintained during the "hitting of the floor with other body parts" it was legal....He tried to tell me it was travel...I told him to look it up in the rule AND case book....we agreed that holding the ball and going to the floor was a travel but not while maintaining the dribble. He later came over to my court between games and said I was correct.

Sounds as if your play is legal as well (of course somebody posted case play)...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

One guy was on his high horse about any part of the body other than a hand or foot hitting the floor was a travel. I advised him that if the dribble was maintained during the "hitting of the floor with other body parts" it was legal....He tried to tell me it was travel...I told him to look it up in the rule AND case book....we agreed that holding the ball and going to the floor was a travel but not while maintaining the dribble..

Good post. New officials, please take note.

[ca_rumperee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Good post. New officials, please take note.

you can't travel while dribbling

i've been surprised by a couple of kids this year who have initiated a dribble out of a scrum. they're rolling, lifting, touching, passing. whatever. if you can keep or initiate the dribble, more power to you.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

Me and my guys in my kids rec league were debating this just this past Saturday...

One guy was on his high horse about any part of the body other than a hand or foot hitting the floor was a travel. I advised him that if the dribble was maintained during the "hitting of the floor with other body parts" it was legal....He tried to tell me it was travel...I told him to look it up in the rule AND case book....we agreed that holding the ball and going to the floor was a travel but not while maintaining the dribble. He later came over to my court between games and said I was correct.

Sounds as if your play is legal as well (of course somebody posted case play)...

You might have your group read the Basketball Rule Fundamentals in the back of the Rules book.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You might have your group read the Basketball Rule Fundamentals in the back of the Rules book.

Basketball Rules Fundamentals

While the ball remains live a loose ball always remains in control of the team whose player last had control, unless it is a try or tap for goal.
Neither a team nor any player is ever in control during a dead ball, jump ball, throw in. or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for a goal.
A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through unless canceled by a throw-in violation or a player control foul.
The jump ball, the throw-in and the free throw are the only methods of getting a dead ball live.
Neither the dribble nor traveling rule operates during the jump ball, throw-in or free throw.
It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble.
The only infractions for which points are awarded are goaltending by the defense or basket interference at the opponent’s basket.
There are three types of violations and each has its own penalty.
A ball in flight has the same relationship to frontcourt or backcourt, or inbounds or out of bounds as when it last touched a person or the floor.
Personal fouls always involve illegal contact and occur during a live ball, except a common foul by or on an airborne shooter.
The penalty for a single flagrant personal or flagrant technical foul is two free throws and disqualification plus awarding the ball to the opponents for a throw-in.
Penalties for fouls are administered in the order in which they occur.
A live-ball foul by the offense (team in the control or last in control if the ball is loose) or the expiration of time for a quarter or extra period, causes the ball to become dead immediately unless the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal. The ball also becomes dead when a player control foul occurs.
The first or only free-throw violation by the offense causes the ball to become dead immediately.
A double personal foul involves only personal fouls and only two opponents; no free throws awaded and the ball is put in play at the point of interruption. A double technical foul involves only technical fouls and only two opponents; no free throws are awarded and theball is put in play at the point of interruption.
The official’s whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead).
"Continuous motion" applies both to tries and taps for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by the defense during interval begins when the habitual trying or tapping motion starts and ends when the ball is clearly in flight.
Whether the clock is running or is stopped has no influence on the counting of a goal.
A ball which touches the front face or edges of the backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds except that when the ball touches the thrower’s backboard, it does not constitute a part of a dribble.
If the ball goes through the basket before or after a player control foul, the goal shall not be counted.

[Back In The Saddle]

I don't believe the dribble does end just because it's trapped between the floor and the hand. If the player lifted his hand, then smacked the ball on top to get it bouncing again, I believe he would be within the rule to continue dribbling.

Anybody disagree with that?

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

Player has the ball.. is dribbling... falls down and traps ball on the floor with right hand. He fell on his knees and his left hand and has the ball trapped with his right.

He picks up the ball and tosses it to a team mate without leaving his knees.

He didn't roll, or scoot or anything.. just fell right down in the middle of a dribble.

I didn't call travel.. should I have??

The most difficult call in this game is traveling. We get this wrong more than any other call we have to make. For all the talk on here about not regretting T's, a great rule of thumb is that if there is any doubt about a travel, don't call it. One of the bigger mistakes we make is calling the non-existant travel. The more you can avoid that, you'll be a much better official.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

We get this wrong more than any other call we have to make.

Maybe you do. I doubt you speak for the rest of us. For instance, the call I have the most trouble with is, .....is.....er....... huh - I don't have trouble with any calls. OK, maybe the false multiple team control double technical foul during a live ball by players jumping from back court to front court while taunting following a third successive timeout by a visiting team who's in the double bonus in the second half. Go figure.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Maybe you do. I doubt you speak for the rest of us. For instance, the call I have the most trouble with is, .....is.....er....... huh - I don't have trouble with any calls. OK, maybe the false multiple team control double technical foul during a live ball by players jumping from back court to front court while taunting following a third successive timeout by a visiting team who's in the double bonus in the second half. Go figure.

I have heard from very highly placed sources on both the NFHS, NCAA, and FIBA rules committee that they're all working tirelessly on standardizing the rules for this play. He wouldn't send me the actual text of the new rule, but he did say that the penalty would be 15 yards (meters in FIBA), divided by the number of consecutive time outs, penalized from the blue line. The jumpers all receive yellow cards.

I think this is a great move forward for the game. It certainly beats the heck out of the current rule (which, as you well know, involves the head cheerleaders from each team arm wrestling), or the older rule which involved the two team's home countries going to war.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

He wouldn't send me the actual text of the new rule, but he did say that the penalty would be 15 yards (meters in FIBA), divided by the number of consecutive time outs, penalized from the blue line. The jumpers all receive yellow cards.

WHAT!!!! The runners wouldn't have to return to their bases!!! And no provision based on which chukker this is?

That's not much of a penalty.

[crazy voyager]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

I have heard from very highly placed sources on both the NFHS, NCAA, and FIBA rules committee that they're all working tirelessly on standardizing the rules for this play. He wouldn't send me the actual text of the new rule, but he did say that the penalty would be 15 yards (meters in FIBA), divided by the number of consecutive time outs, penalized from the blue line. The jumpers all receive yellow cards.

I think this is a great move forward for the game. It certainly beats the heck out of the current rule (which, as you well know, involves the head cheerleaders from each team arm wrestling), or the older rule which involved the two team's home countries going to war.

No no no
The fiba rule is
THe nr of meters left to the 3 point line divided with the number of three pointers made in the first qtr and that a freekick would then be awarded from the POI. If the violation occurs within the 3-second area then a penalty kick would be given (this also means that if no goalkeeper is present a field-player may goalkeep during the kick).

Could somebody give a rule refrence to why the dribble ends when the ball gets trapped between hand and floor.
"24.1.1 A dribble starts when a player, having gained control of a live ball on the playing court, throws, taps, rolls or dribbles it on the floor and touches it again before it touches another player.
A dribble ends when the player touches the ball with both hands simultaneously or permits the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.
During a dribble the ball may be thrown into the air provided the ball touches the floor or another player before the player who threw it touches it again with his hand.
There is no limit to the number of steps a player may take when the ball is not in contact with his hand."

The question is, is trapping the ball between floor and hand considered to have it resting in your hand?
I can't find anything in the FIBA interpetations regarding this