Partner tosses coach - it's becoming a habit

[Mark Padgett]

Last night boys competitive 8th grade game. My partner is a pretty experienced guy with whom I've worked a few times over the years. Prior to the game, he tells me he tossed the visiting coach a few weeks ago. He said he was just giving me a "heads up".

Not much complaining at first, but about halfway through Q3 that coach yells at my partner, "You gotta call that. You've missed it all night." Partner doesn't react. About a minute later, same coach yells at partner, "Aren't you listening? That's a foul!" Partner gives him the stop sign and says, "No more, coach." Coach replies, really loudly, "What's the matter? Can't you take it?" WHACK! Coach says, "That's what I expect - coming from a guy who can't call the game correctly". WHACK #2 and gone!

Coach doesn't want to leave (gee, that never happens). My partner goes over and tells him that if he doesn't leave the gym immediately without any comments, the game is forfeit. He still stands there and stares. My partner then tells him that he will tell all the parents in the stands who paid a lot of money so their kids can play ball that the reason they can't play any more tonight is because he decided to act like a child and they should ask him for a partial refund. He stared again and then just picked up his stuff and left. BTW - his AC hadn't said a word to us all night and didn't for the rest of the game.

After the coach left, my partner told me he has this team again later this week. I asked him if he was going to ask for a change and he said no way - it was the coach's problem, not his. I asked him to call me if he tossed the guy again.

[grunewar]

Has anyone had the experience of having a history with a coach or team? What do you do? Ask assignor not to do those games? Work through it? Ignore it? Ever bring it up to the coach before a game? Bring it up with your partner before the game? For you "long time" officials - does it go away with time? Just curious.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

After the coach left, my partner told me he has this team again later this week. I asked him if he was going to ask for a change and he said no way - it was the coach's problem, not his.

And that is exactly the attitude that all officials should have.

The coach starts off fresh next game, but he sureashell doesn't get to run anybody off.

[budjones05]

Sounds like a problem that I am having with my rec league I'm running. I have a small town with 3 teams (one girl and two mens). One of the mens head coach is a model coach. Doesn't say anything and teaches his players to respect the judgement of the officials. The girls coach I got him for being out of the coaching box. Now normally I would say get back into your box, but I called a foul at the free throw line and I turn around, there he is right in my face. That was 2 weekends ago. Last week, I had the other HC for the other team saying I was unfair/cheating/unethical. Whack, got him once. He goes on and says that I'm not the Charmin that he wipes his butt with. He got another one from me. Now last night, I had there High School Varsity (different coaches btw) and me and my partner ending up ejecting both boys and girls head coaches. Now the whole town thinks I have a personal grudge with the whole town. I got to love my town!

[Coltdoggs]

My question is this...

If this goes to the point we officials declare a forefit because the coach won't leave...Is the team that is ahead declared the winner?

As for history with the same coach...I had an incident during a game a few years ago around the time IU was playing Illinois and the IU AC got a T for standing. It was a close game and this really turned the tables of the game for Illinois.

Had a coach get lippy with me about somethings and I did not T him because it was a close game and I had that IU/UI game in my mind. The next week I had his team again and the guy I was supposed to work with did not have his shoes with him so I started the game by myself. About a minute into the game this coaches team was whistled for two shooting fouls and he said to me "We aren't going to have THIS again this week are we?" I thought for a half second, nope, and I Td him. It was a bad T and I learned that every game is a new game....even when I see the same teams in tournaments on the same day.

[Texas Aggie]

Where is the school district or state association here? An 8th grade coach getting an ejection is pretty serious. 2 in the same year should mandate some form of suspension.

The only thing I might recommend is that the non-calling official get over to the calling official after the T. This does several things: 1) slows everything down, which is very important; 2) gets everyone on the same page as far as what's going on; 3) allows calling official to tell non-calling official to handle the coach and prevent, if possible, another T. The only caveat here is to make sure one of you is watching the players at all times, which is tough with only 2 officials.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

My question is this...

If this goes to the point we officials declare a forefit because the coach won't leave...Is the team that is ahead declared the winner?

The team that forfeits loses. If they were ahead at the time of the forfeit, the score goes in the record as being 2-0 for the other team. If they were behind, the score in the book is the final score.

NFHS rule 5-4-1.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

About a minute into the game this coaches team was whistled for two shooting fouls and he said to me "We aren't going to have THIS again this week are we?" I thought for a half second, nope, and I Td him. It was a bad T and I learned that every game is a new game....even when I see the same teams in tournaments on the same day.

Why is that a bad "T"? He crapped on you and you (rightfully) nailed him.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

Had a coach get lippy with me about somethings and I did not T him because it was a close game and I had that IU/UI game in my mind.

Lousy reason not to give a T, imo. And it got you in trouble later...

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

The next week I had his team again and the guy I was supposed to work with did not have his shoes with him so I started the game by myself. About a minute into the game this coaches team was whistled for two shooting fouls and he said to me "We aren't going to have THIS again this week are we?" I thought for a half second, nope, and I Td him. It was a bad T and I learned that every game is a new game....even when I see the same teams in tournaments on the same day.

He's the one that couldn't let the past go, not you. You tried to start with a new game, he wouldn't let you. SOunds good to me!

I ejected a coach once in about the first three minutes of a game. She wouldn't leave, and ended up forfeiting. the parents were furious, and got her fired. But that doesn't mean they were bad T's. My partner's only complaint was that we didn't toss her sooner! (I was trying think of the girls.)

[Rufus]

I had a similar situation this year. I tossed a coach who mouthed off and then had his team again a couple of weeks later. I was going through the usual pre-game activities and mention the incident to my partner. She said "Thanks" and we went out for the game. Lo and behold the coach is no where to be found and someone new is coaching the team (boys JV). I hang around for the boys varsity and there is the old coach sitting on the bench and assisting the varsity coach.

I have no idea if he was removed from coaching the JV team for just my game (haven't had them since) or the rest of the season. Based on his behavior when he was ejected I tend to think the latter. In either case it was most definitely his problem to deal with in any future games. Our job, and our assignor's, is difficult enough without having to worry about "special" situations that may or may not arise.

[sallender]

FIrst, after an official calls one or two technicals, he should immediately report and walk to the end of where the shots are going to be taken. the off-official is responsible for getting him/her going to the correct goal. then the off-official is responsible for "cleaning up the mess". If that mess is telling the head coach he must leave the gym then so be it.

You are wrong if you call two technicals and stand there in a confrontational manner. You "CAN NOT" win by standing there and telling him it will be a forfeit. first you're partner should be in that role.

Just my Opinion though!

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Has anyone had the experience of having a history with a coach or team? What do you do? Ask assignor not to do those games? Work through it? Ignore it? Ever bring it up to the coach before a game? Bring it up with your partner before the game? For you "long time" officials - does it go away with time? Just curious.

We have 15 schools that we officiate for. So, you go round and round and round with them. One year I had the same school 21 times. Yes, 21. ( JV boys and girls and girls Varsity. ).

I tossed a coach last year and I "T"ed up a coach who had never been "T"ed before. He tried to black ball me, and it worked for about 5 games. Now I am back on the schedule without a problem.

My thought is, it's a whole new game. In my post on too many "T"s, I was doing the game with a coach that I had "T"ed twice this year. New game. No problem. But I did "T" up his opponent. It happens.

[truerookie]

You know what? when you have to justify WHY you have to give a unsporting technical. Re-evaluate the situation.

JMO, no official(s) should have to work around those who display unsporting behavior.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by truerookie

JMO, no official(s) should have to work around those who display unsporting behavior.

Yup, if the technical foul is deserved, it doesn't matter who calls it. You take care of bidness when it comes up. Saying that it's now my partner's job is simply running away from your job.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Where is the school district or state association here?

There is none. We don't have elementary or middle school teams sponsored by schools around here. They are all independent. Some are part of non-profit recreational associations, some join together to make competitive leagues and contract with an assignor (that's what this was) and some are "travel teams" only and just contract to play in independently sponsored tournaments. There is no governing body but they all use NF rules as their base.