Simultaneous Shot Clock Violation/Held Ball

[M&M Guy]

Geeze, what a buncha smart-azzes in this thread.

"A friend of mine" just a had a very similar play happen to them, except no one in the crew had a whistle right away. A1 goes up for the shot, B1 stuffs the shot, and just as they both come down with the ball, the shot clock horn goes off. One official was waiting for the other to call the held ball, while the first was waiting for someone to come in with the shot clock violation. What a bunch of maroons. Finally, someone blew the whistle. Anyway, the held ball definitely occured first, but the horn went off too soon after to have a good idea how much (if any) time should be added back to the shot clock. Also in this case, the arrow was pointing to A.

"My friend" went with the shot clock violation, and kept the arrow the same.

Just curious - what's everyone's take on when a held ball should be called: is it at the moment when a player's shot gets held, or not until they both return to the floor?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Just curious - what's everyone's take on when a held ball should be called: is it at the moment when a player's shot gets held, or not until they both return to the floor?

Put me down for "at the moment when a player's shot gets held."

Of course, if the airborne shooter actually can either pass or shoot before coming down, the ball NEVER was held(NFHS rule 4-25-2).

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Put me down for "at the moment when a player's shot gets held."

Of course, if the airborne shooter actually can either pass or shoot before coming down, the ball NEVER was held(NFHS rule 4-25-2).

Unless the official properly blows the whistle immediately as the shot is prevented, thus making the ball dead so that the shooter getting the ball away and passing it is irrelevant.

Just sayin...

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Unless the official properly blows the whistle immediately as the shot is prevented, thus making the ball dead so that the shooter getting the ball away and passing it is irrelevant.

Just sayin...

Well..."properly blowing the whistle immediately" is the question, isn't it?

What if you hold your whistle for a moment (or several, but that's not important right now), and even though the initial shot was stopped, the player was able to pull the ball away and pass before landing? 4-25-2 says a held ball occurs when, "An opponent places their hand(s) on the ball and prevents an airborne player from throwing the ball or releasing it on a try". If they did indeed pass the ball before landing, the opponent didn't actually prevent the release, now did they? Or does the initial shot stoppage count as the actual prevention?

Just sayin'...

So many questions, so little bandwidth...

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Geeze, what a buncha smart-azzes in this thread.

"A friend of mine" just a had a very similar play happen to them, except no one in the crew had a whistle right away. A1 goes up for the shot, B1 stuffs the shot, and just as they both come down with the ball, the shot clock horn goes off. One official was waiting for the other to call the held ball, while the first was waiting for someone to come in with the shot clock violation. What a bunch of maroons. Finally, someone blew the whistle. Anyway, the held ball definitely occured first, but the horn went off too soon after to have a good idea how much (if any) time should be added back to the shot clock. Also in this case, the arrow was pointing to A.

"My friend" went with the shot clock violation, and kept the arrow the same.

Just curious - what's everyone's take on when a held ball should be called: is it at the moment when a player's shot gets held, or not until they both return to the floor?

In this sitch it is a shot clock violation.

As far as a held ball... what if A1 gets a hand on B1's attempt and B1 does not lose control or bobble it due to it getting hit nor does he take the shot but he instead comes to the ground with the ball. What do you think that should be?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

In this sitch it is a shot clock violation.

As far as a held ball... what if A1 gets a hand on B1's attempt and B1 does not lose control or bobble it due to it getting hit nor does he take the shot but he instead comes to the ground with the ball. What do you think that should be?

If the touching did not prevent a shot or pass, it's traveling. If the touching did prevent the shot, then it's a held ball.

[crazy voyager]

in Fiba this is always a travel
For the held ball that is a 24-violation