This almost happened

[Texas Aggie]

Don't have the current casebook, but looking at the '05-06 one, which has a play where the scenario is the same except the ball hits the opponent rather than an official. The casebook play says that's legal, so how is hitting the official different since Team A was not the last to touch the ball in the front court?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Don't have the current casebook, but looking at the '05-06 one, which has a play where the scenario is the same except the ball hits the opponent rather than an official. The casebook play says that's legal, so how is hitting the official different since Team A was not the last to touch the ball in the front court?

Because Team A need not touch the ball in the FC.

See 4.4.4 (2006-2007 reference "Ball Touches An Official")

[crazy voyager]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

For FIBA this would depend on the players next movement. Lift the frontcourt foot and we have a violation, lift the backcourt foot and proceed into frontcourt then play on.

Not according to my test
If a player is located in both Back and Frontcourt and passes to a teammate standing the same way that is a backcourt violation...
Think of it, when do you get FC status? That is when you move into the frontcourt in some way (one foot, the ball, your hand, something).
Once you are in the FC are you allowed to go back? No
when do you return? When you in any way contact the B/C you are in the B/C

So if you have one foot in the frontcourt, you're in the F/C
If you then passes somebody who has one foot in the B/C, the ball has been returned to the B/C
That's a violation

30.1.1 The ball goes into a team's backcourt when:
• It touches the backcourt.
• It touches a player or an official who has part of his body in contact with the backcourt.
30.1.2 The ball has been illegally returned to the backcourt when a player of the team in control of the live ball is:
• The last to touch the ball in his frontcourt, after which that player or a team-mate is the first to touch the ball in the backcourt.
• The last to touch the ball in his backcourt, after which the ball touches the frontcourt and then is first touched by that player or team-mate in the backcourt.
This restriction applies to all situations in a team's frontcourt, including throw-ins.

So that is a violation
That also means that if you are in the B/C, throws the ball of the backboard (I have one friend who has seen this happen! No idea what the player was thinking but still) and then gets it back still in the B/C, that is a violation
You're in the B/C
The ball goes in the F/C (since it touches something in the F/C, the backboard)
Then it returns to the B/C
You are still in control.
Violation

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by crazy voyager

Not according to my test
If a player is located in both Back and Frontcourt and passes to a teammate standing the same way that is a backcourt violation...
Think of it, when do you get FC status? That is when you move into the frontcourt in some way (one foot, the ball, your hand, something).
Once you are in the FC are you allowed to go back? No
when do you return? When you in any way contact the B/C you are in the B/C agree

So if you have one foot in the frontcourt, you're in the F/C
If you then passes somebody who has one foot in the B/C, the ball has been returned to the B/C
That's a violation agree partially

So that is a violation
That also means that if you are in the B/C, throws the ball of the backboard (I have one friend who has seen this happen! No idea what the player was thinking but still) and then gets it back still in the B/C, that is a violation
You're in the B/C
The ball goes in the F/C (since it touches something in the F/C, the backboard)
Then it returns to the B/C
You are still in control.
Violation this was never in question, also agree.

OK I see what you are saying and agree partially. The statement made about standing straddling the center line is incorrect as to postition status. It is allowable for a player who is already standing across the line to receive a pass. You never have proven that F/C staus has been attained yet. With both feet on the floor and one in each court you do not yet have the F/C status when you receive the ball. So that is why I said it would depend on the next movement. I can see how the if the next pass was to another teammate standing the same way both in front and back court then it could be a violation.

[crazy voyager]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

OK I see what you are saying and agree partially. The statement made about standing straddling the center line is incorrect as to postition status. It is allowable for a player who is already standing across the line to receive a pass. You never have proven that F/C staus has been attained yet. With both feet on the floor and one in each court you do not yet have the F/C status when you receive the ball. So that is why I said it would depend on the next movement. I can see how the if the next pass was to another teammate standing the same way both in front and back court then it could be a violation.

The red part is what I don't agree with
If you have contact with the F/C you are in the F/C
Just the same thing as if you are in the F/C and just touch the B/C you are in the B/C
Or if you just touch OOB then you are OOB
So if you have one feet in both places you will essentially be in both places, how ever being in both places doesn't mean you can pass the ball back to the B/C, becuse you are still partially in the F/C
I'm not sure how to explain it really...

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by crazy voyager

The red part is what I don't agree with
So if you have one feet in both places you will essentially be in both places, how ever being in both places doesn't mean you can pass the ball back to the B/C, becuse you are still partially in the F/C
I'm not sure how to explain it really...

This is true Crazy. You are missing my point that it is legal to be touching both areas when you receive the initial pass. It is the NEXT action that will determine the violation or not. We are not that far apart on this one.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by crazy voyager

you are still partially in the F/C

You can't be "partially in the F/C, just like you can't be partially out of bounds.
If anything is touching the backcourt, you have backcourt status.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by just another ref

You can't be "partially in the F/C, just like you can't be partially out of bounds.
If anything is touching the backcourt, you have backcourt status.

That would be the interp for NCAA or NFHS. In FIBA as soon as any part touches in the F/C then technically you have attained F/C status.

In the Sit we are talking about the player receives the pass while touching both sides of the center line. (legal in all rules) However what is done next determines if they violate in FIBA.

This is how it was explained to me this year. As we have just converted to FIBA rules it was important that we understand how to handle this exact situation. We did not cover what if the player who received the pass, then made another pass to a teammate who was in the same stance. I have sent a clarification to our National Interpreter. We shall see what they say.

[crazy voyager]

ah, we might have interpeted it diffrently then. I meant it like this
A player is standing with the ball straddling the middle-line
(s)he then passes to a player who is also straddling the line.

off course the first pass is legal. But passing to a player standing the same way is a violation