Where is your focus?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by msavakinas

Honestly, I agree with Nevadaref.

I don't. Scrappy rulez.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by msavakinas

It made sense. He was saying that he would reverse the priorities of scrapper1 that were indicated in his post. Honestly, I agree with Nevadaref.

Here's what scrappy said

My first responsibility is the flight of the ball. So I follow the ball to make sure it doesn't hit a support and to watch for basket interference or goaltending -- also to see if it actually goes in. I may have to signal a successful 3-point goal.

Once that stuff is done, then I'll switch to rebounding action on my side of the basket.

Here are his priorities:

1. Watch the flight of the ball
2. Once the ball is no longer in flight watch rebounding action

How do we reverse priorities here? Makes zero sense.
You simply cannot reverse this because #1 happens BEFORE #2.

[chartrusepengui]

I don't think we should even get into the #1 and #2 discussion that's about to happen! :-)

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

1. Watch the flight of the ball
2. Once the ball is no longer in flight watch rebounding action

How do we reverse priorities here? Makes zero sense.
You simply cannot reverse this because #1 happens BEFORE #2.

I disagree, except on shots close to the basket. If the shot is coming from 15', I'm looking at players working for position first. I'm going to officiate the defense and as the shot nears the bucket be looking for anyone getting up around the rim.

Hitting the support/going over the backboard is going to become obvious when it happens.

So, I agree that I reverse the priorities (rebounding, then flight of ball), and then return to rebounding action.

[blindzebra]

Gotta love the little witch hunt, but seriously, what is the likelihood of the ball hitting a support, going over the backboard, BI or GT compared to rebounding contact which may be illegal?

You might see a violation 1 every 50 shots...100 shots...200 shots.

You will see rebounding contact on a shot 50 out of 50 shots...100 shots...200 shots.

You guys don't care for Nevada, we get it, but you are doing everyone that reads the forum a disservice when you disagree just for the sake of disagreeing, when in fact, he's 100% correct in the priorities in this instance.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Gotta love the little witch hunt, but seriously, what is the likelihood of the ball hitting a support, going over the backboard, BI or GT compared to rebounding contact which may be illegal?

I do not think you can speak for me, but I see a lot of play above or near the rim. And yes BI and GT is an issue in many of my games. It might not be a big factor, but it is a factor more often than not. A least more than the odds you gave. And in some cases rebounding contact is not an issue at all.

Originally Posted by blindzebra

You guys don't care for Nevada, we get it, but you are doing everyone that reads the forum a disservice when you disagree just for the sake of disagreeing, when in fact, he's 100% correct in the priorities in this instance.

I think we have a right to disagree with him when people feel he is not correct or he does not follow the ideals of officiating that we might follow. If you have not noticed he is one the opposite opinions of many veterans here. I would hope the same goes for anyone that says something they do not agree with. I also think some were making light of the fact that you really have to watch both things. All things in officiating are not one or the other.

Peace

[blindzebra]

There is rebounding action on nearly every shot I don't care where you are or what level you work there is not a potential BI/GT on nearly every shot.

So disagree with the odds all you want, it doesn't change the fact that the potential for illegal contact during rebounding action far outweighs the potential for a ball violation.

This is even more of an issue with only two officials, where making decisions on priorities is even greater.

That said, of course you can't tunnel vision on either, but you do need to put more focus on rebounding action with ball flight getting a secondary look.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

There is rebounding action on nearly every shot

Geeze, that's some terrible shooting you get to see in your area.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

There is rebounding action on nearly every shot I don't care where you are or what level you work there is not a potential BI/GT on nearly every shot.

Can you have either of these things without the player? So how can you call a GT or BI without the actions of a player being watched?

Originally Posted by blindzebra

So disagree with the odds all you want, it doesn't change the fact that the potential for illegal contact during rebounding action far outweighs the potential for a ball violation.

Once again that is your opinion. And because I only work 3 Person games, I would not consider this an either/or situation. In many cases I might not watch the ball at all. Then again that is me.

Originally Posted by blindzebra

This is even more of an issue with only two officials, where making decisions on priorities is even greater.

You are probably right, but I still feel I can watch both rather equally. And if they want that play covered better, hire a 3rd official and they will be all over that play.

Originally Posted by blindzebra

That said, of course you can't tunnel vision on either, but you do need to put more focus on rebounding action with ball flight getting a secondary look.

Again I take the issue with the term "need" in your sentence. And I have heard a lot more complaining over when the ball hits the support or when there is a basket that counts that should not over contact during a rebound. Then again, that is my experience. That is why I disagree with what is more important.

Peace

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Geeze, that's some terrible shooting you get to see in your area.

Dan, do you not agree that there is generally "rebounding action" on every shot, regardless of whether a rebound actually happens?

We've gotten away from the original question and instead are having silly squabbles. My main point was that watching the flight of the ball is not what I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be watching the players, first and foremost. This will allow me to watch for BI and GT. I'll also be aware of the ball so I can get it hitting a support or going over the backboard.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Geeze, that's some terrible shooting you get to see in your area.

So I guess players don't fight for position and box out on made shots around your area, huh?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Dan, do you not agree that there is generally "rebounding action" on every shot, regardless of whether a rebound actually happens?

Better question is whether there is rebounding action I might care about on every shot.

The answer simply is that it depends. But if the ball goes in "rebounding action' generally amounts to heads up, legs flexed, establishing position. The real rebounding action comes when the ball misses.

But if I'm T in a 2 man game (not doing much of that anymore but I've done my share) I'm watching (my priority is) the flight of the ball on the release, unless the shot comes out of my area then I'm watching (my priority is) to make sure the shooter doesn't get mugged. Then I'm watching (my priority is) the flight of the ball. Then off the miss I'm watching (my priority is) the rebounding. And in there somewhere I'm checking to see that the shot clock got handled properly if it applies.

Pretty simple. My 'priority' depends on where in the sequence I am. The sequence doesn't change very often.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

My main point was that watching the flight of the ball is not what I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be watching the players, first and foremost.

You might get away with that at the JV level and in womens ball. When the game is being played above the rim, good luck to you. It will come back to bite you.

Jmho.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

You guys don't care for Nevada, we get it, but you are doing everyone that reads the forum a disservice when you disagree just for the sake of disagreeing, when in fact, he's 100% correct in the priorities in this instance.

Because you happen to agree with him, that makes him 100% correct?

Naw, don't think so.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You might get away with that at the JV level and in womens ball. When the game is being played above the rim, good luck to you. It will come back to bite you.

Jmho.

JR, do you advocate watching the ball from the time it is released on a try until it is either clearly made or clearly missed, then?

I just can't agree with that. I watch the players - including those who may be able to commit goaltending, and as the shot approaches the rim I then watch the basket/ball for BI. But I always get a fix on where the players are and what they're doing as the shot goes up. It let's me have a much better idea of what's happening on rebounding action if the shot is missed.