Where is your focus?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

JR, do you advocate watching the ball from the time it is released on a try until it is either clearly made or clearly missed, then?

I advocate the sequence that DanRef wrote. As trail, I've got my priorities. My partner has his. My partner's priority is the players in his area under the hoop. I trust him to do his job while I'm doing mine.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You might get away with that at the JV level and in womens ball. When the game is being played above the rim, good luck to you. It will come back to bite you.

Jmho.

I was thinking the same thing. But people get so sensitive around here about Women's ball or not working varsity, I thought I would pass. I am glad you said it first.

Peace

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I advocate the sequence that DanRef wrote. As trail, I've got my priorities. My partner has his. My partner's priority is the players in his area under the hoop. I trust him to do his job while I'm doing mine.

I appreciate the responses. This is an area I'm still learning, as I've just recently begun officiating games with a lot of play above the rim. You've given me a lot to think about.

In reality, this all happens very quickly, and in a 2-man game as described it's impossible to see everything. I may try your sequence (as described by Dan) next time I've got a 2-man game to see how it goes.

I totally respect your opinion but keep coming back to the L having the shooter and his landing while T is watching the flight of the ball, it seems there are a lot of players with no eyes on them...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

.....keep coming back to the L having the shooter and his landing while T is watching the flight of the ball, it seems there are a lot of players with no eyes on them...

Random thoughts.....

There might be players with no eyes on them, but are they really gaining any kind of an advantage that early in the play sequence?

As trail, you can get the flight of the ball while still picking up major illegal contact underneath in your field of vision. Those kind of plays stand out. It's not a case of having tunnel vision and concentrating only on the ball.

The L can shift his focus back underneath as soon as the shooter lands. In that case, the ball is usually not to the rim yet anyway and the jostling for position underneath is just getting started. In most rebounding action, contact that causes a disadvantage usually occurs when a shot is missed. If the shot is made, any contact is usually incidental anyway. And if somebody along the way wants to move an opponent 3 or 4 feet, it's usually tough to miss something as clear as that.

If you miss some contact underneath before the ball hits the ring, in my experience that contact usually hasn't given anyone any kind of a major advantage. If you miss BI/GT though while you're looking at contact that might not mean anything, you sureasheck are giving someone a major advantage.

I think that most fouls underneath usually occur after the shot is missed. And after the shot is missed, we now have 2 sets of eyes on the action looking for those fouls.

JMO.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by msavakinas

i see both sides, and JRut, you are right in the instance of a 3-man situation. But the OP was two-man. I am stating that from a 2-man perspective this is the right attitude to take I believe...

There is a reason there are 2-Person games and 3-Person games. It might not seem fair, but in a 2-Person game you have to focus on more things at once. You really cannot take an either/or attitude or you are going to miss a lot of things. There is just too much for you to watch.

Peace

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It's not a case of having tunnel vision and concentrating only on the ball.

I think that most fouls underneath usually occur after the shot is missed. And after the shot is missed, we now have 2 sets of eyes on the action looking for those fouls.

Excellent points. I wouldn't have thought to say it that way, but you are absolutely right about the advantage usually coming after the shot is missed.

[Bearfanmike20]

I think I also agree with nevada....

You watch the players first.... IMO.

[chartrusepengui]

I think part of the problem in 2 man - is that the trail tends to position self too low - I've seen them position like C in 3 person. In that position - everything is larger and it is difficult to look through play and see everything he is supposed to. By moving back a step or two or three - angles change and it is far easier to see both backside rebounding action as well as the basket and ball in flight.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Excellent points. I wouldn't have thought to say it that way, but you are absolutely right about the advantage usually coming after the shot is missed.

I've called more than a couple fouls this year where B4, in a less than desireable position, grabs the shoulder of A4 to pull him back such that B4 is now in front. Most of the time, this has occurred while the shot is in the air.

In one case when I called the foul on B4, the coach, having picked up on the play only once the shot missed, asked how he could have fouled since he was in front. Once I told him that the foul was before the shot got to the rim and B4 was ONLY in front because of the foul (describing it as above), he nodded and sat down.

Players start jockeying for rebounding position as the shot is released. The action starts then. You have to watch that and keep the flight of the ball within your site at the same time (but not necessarily in focus), if you sense a possibility of above the rim play, then shift focus to cover that. You can tell when a player jumps up to make a play.

[Nevadaref]

The situation under discussion highlights one of the problems with the 2-man system and is a big reason why 3-man is becoming the norm.

There are three things to watch, but only two officials to observe them.
a. shooter returning safely to the floor
b. flight of the ball
c. players battling for rebounding position

All of these are important and we should strive to cover them all, but in reality we have to sacrifice something, so clearly we have to prioritze. Others are obviously free to disagree, but if I'm going to miss something with one of these it is going to be with the flight of the ball. I know that all the fans are focused on the ball and likely so are the coaches, so if I do miss something there I'm going to take grief, but I can accept that given the trade off.

The ball isn't going to hurt anyone. A defender charging out at a shooter could and I have no desire to explain to a coach that I was busy watching the ball when his player attempting to rebound underneath got an elbow to the chin that knocked his teeth out. If I miss that, then I'm going to have even more trouble than if I miss BI or GT.

Player safety is #1. Violations, points, and the lines on the court are secondary to that concern. Therefore, I choose to check the rebounding action for rough play first, then pick up the flight of the ball. Hence my original comment to reverse what the other poster wrote.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Player safety is #1. Violations, points, and the lines on the court are secondary to that concern. Therefore, I choose to check the rebounding action for rough play first, then pick up the flight of the ball. Hence my original comment to reverse what the other poster wrote.

Good argument to trot out at this point. In fact, I'm so convinced that from now on my primary focus will be on the floor, to make sure each player's shoe remains tied. I think it should be yours too. And not just in our primary coverage, but all over the court. Just as you recommend.

btw... somebody emailed me recently saying I suck at sarcasm, because he can't always tell when I'm being sarcastic. This post is sarcastic, in case you can't tell.

[Back In The Saddle]

I've had a couple this year that were like this too. Only in my case, the player from behind simply shoved the guy in front under the backboard and held him off with a stiff arm. This was also before the shot got to the rim.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Good argument to trot out at this point. In fact, I'm so convinced that from now on my primary focus will be on the floor, to make sure each player's shoe remains tied. I think it should be yours too. And not just in our primary coverage, but all over the court. Just as you recommend.

btw... somebody emailed me recently saying I suck at sarcasm, because he can't always tell when I'm being sarcastic. This post is sarcastic, in case you can't tell.

Good sarcasm is hard to tell when people are serious or not.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Good sarcasm is hard to tell when people are serious or not.

Peace

Yeah. I think he was being sarcastic btw...couldn't tell.

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

I think part of the problem in 2 man - is that the trail tends to position self too low - I've seen them position like C in 3 person. In that position - everything is larger and it is difficult to look through play and see everything he is supposed to. By moving back a step or two or three - angles change and it is far easier to see both backside rebounding action as well as the basket and ball in flight.

I find this funny cause many experienced refs will say to step up the the ft line extended to get a closer view when things break down into the lane and walk back out when play opens up outside.