Partner called Travel OOB?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Reminds me of the last time I worked with Chuck.... I gave him the 2 armed chest shove and put my back out reaching down to hit him.

Here he is at a clinic he runs in the summer for local officials.

He's taller than I pictured.

[mkiogima]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

He's taller than I pictured.

No, the basket is just lower.

[M&M Guy]

I like the whistle; is it a Fox 2.5?

[JoeTheRef]

I'm on the same line of thinking with TRook. If the kid/young official knows the rule, he has to enforce the rule. Give the ball back to Red. He needs to learn to exert his presence and his knowledge of the rules regardless of who his partner is. I say this because I just received a 2nd email from one of my college assignors talking about a crew kicking a rule. There are serious ramifications on an officials career and game schedule if they allow a rule to intentionally get kicked. I'm a first year college official, and I've come in on 2 occassions this year and cited the correct rule when the R was about to kick it and the R was a veteran D-I official in this DII game. I'm shy when it comes to giving advice or speaking up, but if I know in my heart what the correct ruling is then I have to find it in myself to say something and put on the most convincing argument. In the OP, all Young had to tell Billy Bob is that she's allowed to run the baseline, the throw-in is my call, and I'm not letting you make my call from on the otherside of the division line.

I guess my point is that if TrueRook chose those words, harsh as they may be, it may be what Young needs to hear. The sooner he hears is and does it, the better off he will be.

[Young IN Ref]

@ TrueRookie (and whether you were out of line): No offense taken. While I haven't posted on the boards, I have been reading them for a while, and expected this response from someone. However, "growing a pair" isn't really the issue what I was trying to address. Let's not make this a flame war.

@ everyone who said to give the ball to Red OOB: This was my initial thought as I went back to the baseline, but as several people mentioned, I thought that since he made the point to say "White ball" loudly (implying that we had just discussed the call and come to a consensus together), it would look foolish if I ran back and gave the ball to Red.

Either 1) He would stop play again and say "White ball," which would make us look worse, have to then hash it out again, in full view of everyone knowing that we just disagreed 2) The HC-White would now raise protest, saying "You both just talked and he said 'white ball!".

The second thought that ran through my head was that if Red inbounded the ball quickly before partner could stop play, it is a non-correctable error, and Red would retain possesion even if it was blown dead

@ TrueRookie for stating that I allowed partner to let me kick a rule/because of vet's status: I don't think it was because of "vet" status that I let him kick the rule. I gave him the information to change it, he didn't want to change it, loudly stated his decision before we agreed. Should I have let him kick the rule? That was part of my question to everyone. It's really easy to say "Give the ball to red....screw him" But in reality, are you going to have a big fight on the court about one possesion?

I don't think I'm not going to "stand up" to a veteran because of this, as I don't consider myself a "rookie". I didn't just roll over and say "woops, I guess he must be right!" I don't have a problem checking with my partner if I feel a rule has been kicked. Yes, it's wrong to kick a rule. That is why rules are in place. My question was more about how to handle a situation where you and your partner disagree.

@ Deecee: This is what I was trying to get it. I didn't want to stand at halfcourt and have an arguement about who was right/wrong. I wanted to discuss the call, but he stopped discussing it and made a decision, reconfirming his original call. What am I supposed to do, as his partner on the court?? Throw him out of the game? This is where I hoped to generate discussion. If I did argue/give the ball to red, the situation is only going to escalate.

@ Splute: I agreed with your statement on "time and place for everything" and that is why I decided to not argue on the middle of the court. Yes, I was almost hoping that HC-Red would say something, so that we could jog over and have a discussion, and HC-Red would say "You can still run the baseline" and partner goes "Oh, uh..yeah, that's right." I think that my partner decided that inherently he was right/I was wrong because of his age/vet status. But, what am I to do? "Hey coach, can you come over here and tell my partner that he's wrong?" It's my partner and I, and we have to make a decision together. We can't poll the audience!

@ BayStateRef: I like your "bet the gamecheck" idea! I almost wish I had done that in retrospect, as I'm sure that he would have accepted.

@ Archangel: Wow, and not that I would ever get into a shoving match about a rule, but that is what I didn't want the situation to disintegrate into...where we just argued back and forth about a call. We can't give the ball to both teams, and have to make a decision. Because he made the decision, and then (seemingly) made the decision for us again after conferencing, I didn't have anything to go on....other than trying to "sneak one in"

Thanks to everyone for all the comments/discussion I didn't mean to state this as myself vs Vet official, but how to handle a situation where you and your partner(s) disagree on (any) rule. BayStateRef had a fun idea about betting the gamecheck, but I could see that turning it into a "you vs me" problem. I obviously knew the rule, tried to correct it, and he didn't want any part of it.

Walter
(To the official who called Tyler F. this morning and said "What the **** are you doing JH games for!)

I just moved to Muncie/Ball State, and since I'm new to the area and still making contacts.....a few JH games during the week. Plus, it pays the rent. I know I'm certainly not getting paid enough of a stipend! haha

[Young IN Ref]

TruRookie:

Someone kicked a rule on purpose, during the game, to see if you would correct it?? Wow. To me, that's scary, and I wouldn't trust those officials. Did their supervisor/assignor know? What if you didn't catch it? Were they going to correct themselves? Did they talk before the game and say "in the middle of the 2nd Q, I'm going to blow a call around 3:00....if TruRookie doesn't catch it, make sure you cover me.

I guess, if someone told me that they were going to kick a rule...just to "test" someone....I would think it absurd! Why mess with the game, the athletes playing it, your own integrity and judgement (and obviously, the perception of you as an official), to test someone?

During my game, I don't think he kicked the rule intentionally just to 'test' me. And, if he was, wouldn't my running out to check him be enough, to change the call? How far would you go to test someone? If it wasn't intentional, I would think that he would be willing to listen to me, when I questioned him about the call.

I just wanted to clarify, that I didn't think his kicking the rule was intentional. He honestly that that was the rule (or had a major brain freeze)

[truerookie]

[QUOTE=Young IN Ref]@ TrueRookie (and whether you were out of line): No offense taken. While I haven't posted on the boards, I have been reading them for a while, and expected this response from someone. However, "growing a pair" isn't really the issue what I was trying to address. Let's not make this a flame war. It's not Others made it out of that.

@ TrueRookie for stating that I allowed partner to let me kick a rule/because of vet's status: I don't think it was because of "vet" status that I let him kick the rule. I gave him the information to change it, he didn't want to change it, loudly stated his decision before we agreed. Should I have let him kick the rule? That was part of my question to everyone. It's really easy to say "Give the ball to red....screw him" But in reality, are you going to have a big fight on the court about one possesion? I agree it would not be a big fight about one possession red would have gotten the ball.

I just moved to Muncie/Ball State, and since I'm new to the area and still making contacts.....a few JH games during the week. I didn't know the circumstance. HOWEVER, this really supports my statement. You never know the circumstances in which others my challenge your rules knowledge and confidence in them.

[truerookie]

[QUOTE=Young IN Ref]TruRookie:

Someone kicked a rule on purpose, during the game, to see if you would correct it?? Wow. To me, that's scary, and I wouldn't trust those officials. Did their supervisor/assignor know? What if you didn't catch it? Were they going to correct themselves? Did they talk before the game and say "in the middle of the 2nd Q, I'm going to blow a call around 3:00....if TruRookie doesn't catch it, make sure you cover me.

I guess, if someone told me that they were going to kick a rule...just to "test" someone....I would think it absurd! Why mess with the game, the athletes playing it, your own integrity and judgement (and obviously, the perception of you as an official), to test someone?

During my game, I don't think he kicked the rule intentionally just to 'test' me. And, if he was, wouldn't my running out to check him be enough, to change the call? How far would you go to test someone? If it wasn't intentional, I would think that he would be willing to listen to me, when I questioned him about the call.

I stated that I did not know about it until we conduct a post game conference. This is when it was brought to me attention.

[Mark Padgett]

Young IN Ref - let me ask you this. Just curious. What if this had happened in the final seconds of a tie game? Would you have reacted the same? Again - not saying I agree or disagree with how you handled it - just want to know if that would have made a difference.

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by Young IN Ref

I just moved to Muncie/Ball State, and since I'm new to the area and still making contacts.....a few JH games during the week. Plus, it pays the rent. I know I'm certainly not getting paid enough of a stipend! haha

If you haven't ran across him yet, Robert Voss would be one individual to track down. I believe he's still in that area. Great guy, veteran tournament official.