Blowout becomes a mess

[CJRef]

Girls Varsity. Team A is up by 20, wants an intentional called with 8 seconds left, doesn't get it. Trail is right in front of A's bench. Trail hears a male voice yell "You're un****ing believable" from the bench. Could not have been the players (girls), trainer or head coach (women), no spectators behind the bench, so it leaves one the three male assistants. Trail spins around instantly but all three have their poker faces on. Trail blows whistle, walks to table and announces a T on the head coach, she then loses it. By now the lead is over at the table to get him out of there but before he does, head coach says "How can you call that on me, I didn't say it" to which the trail tells the head coach she's in charge of the bench, that's why she picked it up. As that is happening, one of the assistants gets in the way and says "get this dumbass (unfortunately I'm pretty sure he was referring to my partner) out of here". I'm now over in the area while trying to keep on eye on the players. As my partners are coming to meet with me away from the bench, I hear another one of the assistants yell directly at us "What a f***ing joke". We discuss that we now have two more technicals and an ejection. I go to report what we have, the bench all of a sudden calmed down, coach leaves, we shoot the free throws and finish the game.

The whole thing took us by surprise since they hadn't said a word the entire game and the foul they wanted was for an accidental jersey grab.
Afterwards we discussed the situation at length and discussed variations and other questions. What is the most effective way to deal with a bench issue that merits a technical but cannot be attributed to an individual? Would you have a flagrant for the original comment?

[jdw3018]

In my area, the f-bomb like that merits a flagrant if it's loud enough to be heard by the players. I'm sure in some areas it doesn't.

As for how to handle the situation where you can't identify which said it, I'm curious to hear from the more experienced folks how they'd handle this.

Stupid end to a blowout - I hate it when things go bad like that, but nothing you could do but call the Ts and go on your way.

[bob jenkins]

NCAA (at least NCAAW) gives the option of assessing a "bench" T -- and an indirect to the coach. I don't think it's specifically mentioned ion FED, but I'm not sure it's not a good idea.

[JugglingReferee]

Since you can't identify the original voice of the 1st F-bomb, I have just a bench T. If I could ID that person, it's a flagrant T. As for the other T's, all good in my opinion. The only way to prevent them is to try to get away from the bench ASAP.

[blindzebra]

Where to begin.

First off, call the bench T, give the HC an indirect.

Second, get away from the darn bench.

If a second or third T gets given make sure it's obvious that the bench earned it. If you are too close it gives the perception you are baiting them, if you are across the court it becomes obvious who is causing the situation.

Get together, sort out what gets shot where, at a distance and then go tell the HC she has a seat for the indirect caused by her assistant...if you had the foul call that started the mess even better, because then you can explain why you didn't have an intentional to the HC.

[rainmaker]

I think your partner should have called a T on the bench in general, give the head coach an indirect with the seatbelt, and get the ball into play for the shots as quickly as possible. If all three refs are paying attention to the bench to help prevent further outbursts, and the ball gets back into play, sometimes , sometimes these sorts of messes can be prevented.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

....... get the ball into play for the shots as quickly as possible. If all three refs are paying attention to the bench to help prevent further outbursts, and the ball gets back into play, sometimes , sometimes these sorts of messes can be prevented.

Yep, I'm a firm believer that bad things tend to happen when the ball is dead....

[CJRef]

We were all over the original call. The calling official reported the foul and answered a very calm question from the head coach, which apparently one of the assistants did not like the response. As he went to report the technical he began to second guess his rules knowledge (he's almost too familiar with NCAA rules, specifically NCAAW) and was unsure of the NFHS rule if any on bench technicals. The rest happened very quickly, the second technical was unavoidable, the assistant got in the lead's path on the court as he was coming to get the trail out of there (trail was already leaving) Our conversation then took place past center court opposite the bench. On the tape you can clearly see the assistant (unfortunately not hear him) step towards us and throw his hands up in our direction. I agree that often a mess can be contained to the original problem but this was an avalanche of dumbness. Fortunately I didn't have to explain anything, as I had said in the OP, once I walked over from our huddle, the bench had calmed down and the head coach was already walking out of the gym. During our conversation afterwards we were unable to find the rule which would allow a bench technical.

[Rodical]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

Yep, I'm a firm believer that bad things tend to happen when the ball is dead....

Or even when it's live ......... Over the years, I've tried to develop a 'deaf ear' (not too difficult for me, since my hearing IS diminished), but in certain situations, such as the OP, it seems that if the poster could've just "not heard" the remark, things would've been much better......Once they've "gotten my attention", then we've got a whole new situation.

[CJRef]

Originally Posted by Rodical

Or even when it's live ......... Over the years, I've tried to develop a 'deaf ear' (not too difficult for me, since my hearing IS diminished), but in certain situations, such as the OP, it seems that if the poster could've just "not heard" the remark, things would've been much better......Once they've "gotten my attention", then we've got a whole new situation.

You're kidding, right?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Rodical

Or even when it's live ......... Over the years, I've tried to develop a 'deaf ear' (not too difficult for me, since my hearing IS diminished), but in certain situations, such as the OP, it seems that if the poster could've just "not heard" the remark, things would've been much better......Once they've "gotten my attention", then we've got a whole new situation.

Most definitely we don't want to have rabbit ears, but each of the comments in the OP deserve to be assessed with a technical foul.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Rodical

but in certain situations, such as the OP, it seems that if the poster could've just "not heard" the remark, things would've been much better.......

No, things would be much worse. You just showed the whole bench, the opposing team, your partners and everybody in the crowd that could hear that remark that you are severely lacking in testicular fortitude.

Saying that any official should ever ignore demeaning, profane remarks like that is absolutely ridiculous. Methinks that this officiating racket is not really meant for you, podner.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Rodical

Or even when it's live ......... Over the years, I've tried to develop a 'deaf ear' (not too difficult for me, since my hearing IS diminished), but in certain situations, such as the OP, it seems that if the poster could've just "not heard" the remark, things would've been much better......Once they've "gotten my attention", then we've got a whole new situation.

Another 'Old School' alias.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rodical

Or even when it's live ......... Over the years, I've tried to develop a 'deaf ear' (not too difficult for me, since my hearing IS diminished), but in certain situations, such as the OP, it seems that if the poster could've just "not heard" the remark, things would've been much better......Once they've "gotten my attention", then we've got a whole new situation.

Please, God, make the bad voices stop!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by CJRef

Girls Varsity. Team A is up by 20, wants an intentional called with 8 seconds left, doesn't get it. Trail is right in front of A's bench. Trail hears a male voice yell "You're un****ing believable" from the bench. Could not have been the players (girls), trainer or head coach (women), no spectators behind the bench, so it leaves one the three male assistants. Trail spins around instantly but all three have their poker faces on. Trail blows whistle, walks to table and announces a T on the head coach, she then loses it. By now the lead is over at the table to get him out of there but before he does, head coach says "How can you call that on me, I didn't say it" to which the trail tells the head coach she's in charge of the bench, that's why she picked it up. As that is happening, one of the assistants gets in the way and says "get this dumbass (unfortunately I'm pretty sure he was referring to my partner) out of here". I'm now over in the area while trying to keep on eye on the players. As my partners are coming to meet with me away from the bench, I hear another one of the assistants yell directly at us "What a f***ing joke". We discuss that we now have two more technicals and an ejection. I go to report what we have, the bench all of a sudden calmed down, coach leaves, we shoot the free throws and finish the game.

The whole thing took us by surprise since they hadn't said a word the entire game and the foul they wanted was for an accidental jersey grab.
Afterwards we discussed the situation at length and discussed variations and other questions. What is the most effective way to deal with a bench issue that merits a technical but cannot be attributed to an individual? Would you have a flagrant for the original comment?

I have closely perused the NFHS and NCAA Men's/Women's rules and it is my humble oppinion that these situations are handled the same both sets of rules.

Addressing your first situation is to charge the HC-A with a Direct TF. Not withstanding my position concerning Team Captains, the Head Coach is the one, by rule, that receives either a Direct TF or Indirect TF's for TF's committed by Bench Personnel. When the official does not know which Bench Personnel member committed the unsportsmanlike conduct, the Head Coach is the one that is holding the short straw and has to receive a Direct TF. The problem I have in this situation is that F-bombs, in my humble opinion, are Flagrant TF's; and I would like to be charging the Bench Personnel member who actually dropped the F-bomb to receive the Direct TF that is a Flagrant TF.

Addressing your second situation: This is definitely a Direct TF against the A1C-A (and if HC-A's Direct TF was not a Flagrant TF, then we have an Indirect TF against HC-A; one Direct TF and one Indirect TF, if you are keeping score at home) and if I would be very very inclined to consider A1C-A's TF a Flagrant TF.

Addressing your third situation: This is definitely a Direct TF against the A2C-A and is most definitely Flagrant TF (and if HC-A's Direct TF was not a Flagrant TF, then we have an Indirect TF against HC-A; one Direct TF and two Indirect TF's, if you are keeping score at home). This means HC-A is disqualified and ejected for having one Direct TF and two Indirect TF's.

Therefore: HC-A is disqualified and ejected for accumulating one Direct TF and two Indirect TF's; A1C-A is ejected for receiving one Direct TF which was a Flagrant TF; and A2C-A is ejected for receiving one Direct TF which was a Flagrant TF. Team B will shoot six (6) free throws. AND now comes the fun part: Who gets the ball for the throw-in after the free throws are shot and from what spot is the throw-in taken. It appears that for once all three Rules codes agree: Team B gets the ball for a throw-in at the division line opposite the Scorer's/Timer's Table.

Having written all I have written and I was the R, I would poll my partners as to whether we should just forfeit the game to Team B rathing than shoot all of those free throws because the Team A's coaching staff had obviously lost their composure to say the least.

MTD, Sr.