The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 13, 2008, 12:10am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Today

Varsity B/G double header, started at noon (a great thing given that the school is 2 hours from my home). Some odd things happened.

Each game started with a jump ball violation. Girls game, both players tipped it once, then white jumper grabbed it before it it the floor. (A first in a game I've done) I'm R, U1 grabs it. Boys game, visitor's jumper steals the tip. I'm U1 and grab it. (My second ever.)

Girls game is a blowout. White only has 5 players on the roster, finishes with 4 (a first for me). Could have been worse, as one of the four who finished actually had 4 fouls by half time.

Middle of the 4th quarter, white takes the ball out for a spot throwin on the endline in their backcourt, and set up their offense as if they're shooting at that basket. My partner notices and expects they'll shoot at the wrong basket. They do. They hadn't shot well all game, but poor girl made this one. (A first for me in a game I've officiated. Had two teammates do it when I played in school, though.) After the ball goes through, partner hits his whistle; informs the table the points need to go to black, and resets the kids, making sure white gets the ball for the endline throwin.

Black, who won by about 458 points, ran their press all game, only pulling back occasionally for a possession or so. A first for me in a blowout. Most coaches are kind enough to pull back, at least in the 4th quarter.

Early fourth quarter, black starts clearing his bench during some freethrow. Suddenly a girl shows up in a red jersey. (another first for me) Partner walks over to the coach and tells him she can't play. Coach says he was told to bring as many girls as he could (I think they anticipated a blowout). Partner walks over to the home coach to see if he's okay with it; he is (very classy, IMO). Although he does ask, in jest, for some extra free throws out of the deal.

After the game, and on the drive home, we discussed the situation and couldn't reach a resolution. I thought coach could buy her in with a technical foul, both of my partners thought she just simply couldn't play. I think it falls under the illegal jersey rule (just like non-white for home, or illegal styles, etc.) Partners disagreed, but not sure why. Thoughts?
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 13, 2008, 12:38am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Richmond, IN
Posts: 402
Can't play!!! Uniforms have to match in color, Rule 3-4-6. The jersey isn't illegal. Its just the wrong color.
__________________
It is what it is!!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 13, 2008, 01:20am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimlet25id
Can't play!!! Uniforms have to match in color, Rule 3-4-6. The jersey isn't illegal. Its just the wrong color.
By this logic, home can't play unless they're wearing white, though, since it also falls under 3-4-6. The NFHS clearly disagrees with that, however, as we've all been instructed to charge them with technical fouls rather than declare a forfeit.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 13, 2008, 09:07am
9/11 - Never Forget
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,635
Send a message via Yahoo to grunewar
Sounds like some interesting games with a bunch of firsts!

Yesterday, I had my first jump ball where one of the jumpers caught the ball.
__________________
There was the person who sent ten puns to friends, with the hope that at least one of the puns would make them laugh. No pun in ten did.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 13, 2008, 09:32am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimlet25id
Can't play!!! Uniforms have to match in color, Rule 3-4-6. The jersey isn't illegal. Its just the wrong color.
If they don't match in color, it is an illegal jersey. The penalty for an illegal jersey is a technical foul.

See case book play 3.4.6SitA for the ruling on wearing a wrong colored jersey.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 13, 2008, 12:01pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Two more things I ran into yesterday.
Boys game, I'm T hustling down in transition on a break. A1 spots up for a three point shot, and as I'm about to mark the attempt, I look up an see my partner stopping at the C position, right in front of me, and mark the attempt. He was about 15 feet in front of me. I look across the court, and the other partner is at C, laughing.
I yell "Larry" just as the shot goes in. He turns around and I see the "Oh Sh!t" look on his face as he realizes what happened; and we didn't have an L. We were all over that three point shot, though.

I joked later that just for fun, I should have ran right past him and taken the L position. Maybe tapped him on the shoulder as I went by.

Also, in the girls game, we had a white player go down with injury in the third quarter. It was just a really awkward play, no contact. She knew she didn't have a sub, so she kept telling me she was ok. After about 15 seconds (I gave her some extra time to gather herself), she got up saying she could play, even though she was limping hard on her ankle.

I turn around, and the coach is right behind me. As I'm debating what to do next, coach makes my decision very easy by asking for a timeout. Lucky me. This leads me to a question. Since the coach came out, he was beckoned. In this case, if he didn't have a timeout, would we have had to force him to play with 4 until the next sub opportunity?
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 13, 2008, 12:08pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
In this case, if he didn't have a timeout, would we have had to force him to play with 4 until the next sub opportunity?
By rule, yes. Game management might dictate otherwise.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 13, 2008, 12:23pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 17,618
Liability ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
She knew she didn't have a sub, so she kept telling me she was ok. After about 15 seconds (I gave her some extra time to gather herself), she got up saying she could play, even though she was limping hard on her ankle. I turn around, and the coach is right behind me. As I'm debating what to do next, coach makes my decision very easy by asking for a timeout. Since the coach came out, he was beckoned. In this case, if he didn't have a timeout, would we have had to force him to play with 4 until the next sub opportunity?
Remember, this involves a possible injury, and safety. What if there were no more timouts, and you decided to let the player continue to play, without the expense of a technical foul for the extra timeout, and the players aggravates the injury? Negligence? Liability? Let the coach decide whether to take her out and let her sit a tick, or take the technical foul for then extra time out. In either case you're letting the coach decide the condtions under which the player continues, not you, the official.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 13, 2008, 12:36pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
By rule, yes. Game management might dictate otherwise.
Agreed, on both counts. In the few seconds I had to think about it, I was leaning towards letting her play. Not that it really matters, but we were right in front of white's bench, so the coach hadn't really come far (maybe three or four steps) onto the court.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 13, 2008, 12:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Richmond, IN
Posts: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
By this logic, home can't play unless they're wearing white, though, since it also falls under 3-4-6. The NFHS clearly disagrees with that, however, as we've all been instructed to charge them with technical fouls rather than declare a forfeit.

Here in Indiana the IHSAA has instructed us to not give "T's" if the home team doesn't have white jersey's. They want us instead to report the offending school to them and let them take care of it. IHSAA doesn't want to start the game with 5 "T's".

JR...Good case play reference! Still doesn't negate the fact that the uniforms of all team members have to match in color to play. In this case they all are the wrong color so they would be penalized accordingly, all of the colors still matched.

If all of the players have white jersey's and one player wants to come in with a red jersey theres no way to allow it. What if the other team has red jersey's? Technical foul can't be given to buy this player in.

If the player comes in with a white jersey that has something illegal about the jersey then that player could play after the "T."
__________________
It is what it is!!
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 13, 2008, 12:41pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Richmond, IN
Posts: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
If they don't match in color, it is an illegal jersey. The penalty for an illegal jersey is a technical foul.

See case book play 3.4.6SitA for the ruling on wearing a wrong colored jersey.
That case play is in reference to the home team not having the required white jersey's not jersey's that don't match in color.
__________________
It is what it is!!
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 13, 2008, 12:42pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimlet25id
Here in Indiana the IHSAA has instructed us to not give "T's" if the home team doesn't have white jersey's. They want us instead to report the offending school to them and let them take care of it. IHSAA doesn't want to start the game with 5 "T's".

JR...Good case play reference! Still doesn't negate the fact that the uniforms of all team members have to match in color to play. In this case they all are the wrong color so they would be penalized accordingly, all of the colors still matched.

If all of the players have white jersey's and one player wants to come in with a red jersey theres no way to allow it. What if the other team has red jersey's? Technical foul can't be given to buy this player in.

If the player comes in with a white jersey that has something illegal about the jersey then that player could play after the "T."
What reasoning do you have for allowing a technical foul to buy a player in for a violation of rule 3-4-6b, but not for 3-4-6a? There's nothing in the rule book that allows you do do that.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 13, 2008, 01:06pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 17,618
Connecticut Home Whites

Call the technical if home team does not wear white uniforms. Player/team technical is called for each starter and any substitute who enters the game. Applies only to VARSITY team. Situation Home Team A has non-white uniforms. Team B receives 10 technical free throws to start the game plus the ball. Team A is assess 5 team fouls and each player is assessed a technical which counts toward their allows of 5 fouls before disqualification.
Exceptions are:
1. CIAC grants a waiver to team and notifies Assignment Commissioner who will notify officials
2. visiting team agrees to wear white and home team can wear non-white
3. allowance is made for home team which may host a tournament and need to wear non-white uniform on 2nd day of tournament
Notify Commissioner after game if such situation occurs in your game.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 13, 2008, 01:27pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Richmond, IN
Posts: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
What reasoning do you have for allowing a technical foul to buy a player in for a violation of rule 3-4-6b, but not for 3-4-6a? There's nothing in the rule book that allows you do do that.
Say for example you notice that the player coming in with the WHITE jersey has a visible logo on it. That player can't play unless you give a "T." Colors match but the LOGO is illegal. Case BK 3-4A

I wasn't saying that its ok to buy a player in for the wrong color jersey, I said the opposite. In RULE 3-4-6b our State IHSAA has said to not give 5 "T's" if the home team doesn't have white jerseys.
__________________
It is what it is!!

Last edited by Gimlet25id; Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 01:31pm.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 13, 2008, 01:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimlet25id
Can't play!!! Uniforms have to match in color, Rule 3-4-6. The jersey isn't illegal. Its just the wrong color.
I'd let the kid play, under the case where a jersey is changed to a different color because the original has blood on it.

Yes, I know it's differetn -- but it points out that there are times when the jerseys don't have to match, and having more kids than jerseys just might be one of those times.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A First Today with MTD, Jr. Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Basketball 14 Mon Dec 24, 2007 07:02pm
Today brandan89 Basketball 20 Tue Nov 30, 2004 03:39pm
Saw this one today YoungRighty Baseball 3 Sat Aug 07, 2004 07:49pm
Okay one for today. buddha69 Softball 6 Fri Jul 23, 2004 09:39pm
Well I had a first today!! Damian Basketball 7 Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:36pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:41am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1