Team foul but ? which player...

[ca_rumperee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

What you learned: never, ever leave the spot of the foul without knowing who the foul is on.

Never.

While you're at it always know who will be shooting any free throws.

Never leave the spot without... one problem I have is, ok i've got 44 red with the foul. 31 White is my shooter... turn to the table... 31, 31? Wait who on red?

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by fullor30

That's because that's where your head is.

I'm just trying to get a better feel for your opinion.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

Never leave the spot without... one problem I have is, ok i've got 44 red with the foul. 31 White is my shooter... turn to the table... 31, 31? Wait who on red?

Vocalize.

Not only do you pass the info onto your partner(s) and players but by doing so you get it into your brain.

44 red hold, 31 white you are shooting...now go to the table.

[BillyMac]

The style of jerseys today is for them to be oversize. I called a foul on #4 a few nights ago. When I came back to admisnister the free throw, I saw that the fouler was actually #14. Her jersey had folded over on itself so that only the "4" showed.

Work enough games, this is my 27th year, and you are going to eventually report the wrong number, and possibly forget the correct number, as you try to figure out where to switch, not to make a long switch, is it the bonus, or the double bonus, is it the fifth personal foul, who is the shooter, the coach is politely, or not politely, asking you a question,etc. When this has happened to me, I try to get help from my partner first, the table second, and if all else fails, ask the players. If I can't get help from anyone, and don't want to make an educated guess, is there any basis, at all, for assigning a team foul ,without the corresponding personal foul?

[Back In The Saddle]

I know some officials who make a fraction out of the two numbers. For some reason it's easier to keep a fraction in their minds than two separate numbers.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The style of jerseys today is for them to be oversize. I called a foul on #4 a few nights ago. When I came back to admisnister the free throw, I saw that the fouler was actually #14. Her jersey had folded over on itself so that only the "4" showed.

Work enough games, this is my 27th year, and you are going to eventually report the wrong number, and possibly forget the correct number, as you try to figure out where to switch, not to make a long switch, is it the bonus, or the double bonus, is it the fifth personal foul, who is the shooter, the coach is politely, or not politely, asking you a question,etc. When this has happened to me, I try to get help from my partner first, the table second, and if all else fails, ask the players. If I can't get help from anyone, and don't want to make an educated guess, is there any basis, at all, for assigning a team foul ,without the corresponding personal foul?

Nope.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Nope.

Guessing is better than using Rule 2-3 ??????

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Guessing is better than using Rule 2-3 ??????

Neither one is a very good option. At least with guessing you have a 1-in-5 chance of getting it right

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Neither one is a very good option.

You're right. The best option is to get it correct the first time, and everytime, but sometimes we screw up. Good mechanics, good communiction with your partner, good table personnel, etc. should allow you to get it right 99 and 44/100 % of the time, or better, but sometimes, once in a "Blue Moon, ......

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

I know some officials who make a fraction out of the two numbers. For some reason it's easier to keep a fraction in their minds than two separate numbers.

That's what my mentor always told me he did. But, it never worked for me.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

How come fullor30 and Old School never post in the same thread. ROFLMAO

Boy am I a bad boy.

MTD, Sr.

[mbyron]

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

When we decide to set aside a rule because its a lower level game we do the player/coaches/fans & most importantly your fellow officials a huge disservice.

The lower level games is where we get the chance to enforce the majority of the rule book. Those obscure rules that we never get to administer @ higher level games almost always come up @ the lower level games.

IMHO..When they do come up and we decide to set aside the rule we train the coaches/players & fans the wrong rule administration. This then sets our fellow officials up for failure when the play happens to them with the same team and they administer it the correct way

I'll reply to you because you respectfully said "in your opinion". I do grammar school games and youth games because I love the kids, not because I need to fine tune my mechanics as was implied by 'blind'zebra. In 8 years of reffing and thousands of games I think I gave a team foul two or three times for the flow of the game and the particular situation that can't be relived here. I've always prefaced to the scorer, quietly, who maybe a Mom or 8th grader that "I goofed" so lets put down a team foul. I have too much respect for the game, players, parents and coaches to phone in a game. I come on time, dressed properly, hustle, and perform my duties as an official on the highest level and like you, don't like to see the indifference on occassion by officials for lower level games. I will say, I haven't seen much of this in past few years in my area which is good.

If you interpreted my giving a team foul to an underclass game as being flippant and disrespectful at that level it wasn't intended to be.


We can argue about rules and what is the right call etc., but for someone to pontificate and come of as a pompous jerk, gives me a little insight to their people skills. I won't tolerate that and will respond in kind.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Vocalize.

Not only do you pass the info onto your partner(s) and players but by doing so you get it into your brain.

44 red hold, 31 white you are shooting...now go to the table.

ABSOLUTELY!!! Agree 100%. Tell yourself who committed the foul and tell your partner(s) who is shooting. EVERY TIME!!!

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by fullor30

I do grammar school games and youth games because I love the kids, ...

I understand where your coming from if your working with very young kids like it sounds like you are. Nothing wrong with ignoring minor violations @ that level. Anyways most of the time the families are just there to watch the kids participate.

I haven't really worked with very young kids in a while. When I did I would make sure to take the time to explain to the kids & coaches what they did wrong in hopes of helping them to understand what not to do the next time.

I mis understood what you were implying by lower level games. I think once these kids get to the age/grade where their more competitive then it is up to us to enforce the rules the same across the board. Doing so respects the players/coaches/fans & the game.