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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 07:17pm
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Team foul but ? which player...

I had a sitch in one of my games Saturday that I am curious about...

Shooting foul: As I move off baseline to report, 32 walks in front of me....I report red 32, give illiegal hands signal for the hit on the arm ...then look back and realize that I think I said the wrong number, turned to look at both players and still think it was red 35....I then changed my call to the table.

Table clock operator (parent from red team) tells me 35 was on the other side of the lane and couldn't have made the shooting foul, it was 32. I said, no 35, he is the one that hit #4 on the arm during the shot....He insists it was 32 and that I was absolutely wrong.

Now I'm a little concerned but I was sure it was 35 and I accidentally said 32 cause he walked in front of me.....So I confer with my partners about what I saw, reported and what the table gave me as info....I told them I was sure it was 35 but wanted to be sure ...they didn't have anything to offer to contradict what I saw and they said they were fine with my call...

After the game, another official tells me if this ever happens and the official is not sure that you can mark it as a team foul and not charge a player.....Is this correct and is there any provision for it in the case book?

I ask because it was 35's 5th foul during a very good, close game. I wanted to get clear on handling that. Perhaps I was wrong...it's not a big deal, but I want to get things correct......Red won the game in OT by the way...
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 07:22pm
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It has to be charged to someone.

If all else fails go into the lane and ask, "Who fouled him?"
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 08:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra
It has to be charged to someone.

If all else fails go into the lane and ask, "Who fouled him?"

If I screw up, I'm giving a team foul. Although, I've been involved in a who committed the foul scenario you mentioned.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 09:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullor30
If I screw up, I'm giving a team foul. Although, I've been involved in a who committed the foul scenario you mentioned.
There's no provision for just giving a team foul...sombody has to get it.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 10:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra
There's no provision for just giving a team foul...sombody has to get it.
I'm doing a Varsity game, somebody is getting the foul. Our Lady of Perpetual Motion, sixth grade girls game, I may give a team foul, and by the post I'm sure it was a kids game.

I'm aware there is no provision for a 'team' foul.

Last edited by fullor30; Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 10:23pm.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 10:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullor30
I'm doing a Varsity game, somebody is getting the foul. Our Lady of Perpetual Motion, sixth grade girls game, I may give a team foul, and by the post I'm sure it was a kids game.

I'm aware there is no provision for a 'team' foul.

This is why officials find themselves in trouble.

So the 6th grade girls don't deserve you doing it right?

Those games are not throw away games, in fact they may be the most useful games you will work. Screwy plays, tons of call selection choices, less physically taxing so you can work on using your off hand on dead ball signals and violation calls, crisp reporting, etc...

I absolutely despise the "it was just a kids game" attitude and excuse...do it right or don't do it at all.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 10:47pm
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When we decide to set aside a rule because its a lower level game we do the player/coaches/fans & most importantly your fellow officials a huge disservice.

The lower level games is where we get the chance to enforce the majority of the rule book. Those obscure rules that we never get to administer @ higher level games almost always come up @ the lower level games.

IMHO..When they do come up and we decide to set aside the rule we train the coaches/players & fans the wrong rule administration. This then sets our fellow officials up for failure when the play happens to them with the same team and they administer it the correct way
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Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 10:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coltdoggs
I had a sitch in one of my games Saturday that I am curious about...

Shooting foul: As I move off baseline to report, 32 walks in front of me....I report red 32, give illiegal hands signal for the hit on the arm ...then look back and realize that I think I said the wrong number, turned to look at both players and still think it was red 35....I then changed my call to the table.

Table clock operator (parent from red team) tells me 35 was on the other side of the lane and couldn't have made the shooting foul, it was 32. I said, no 35, he is the one that hit #4 on the arm during the shot....He insists it was 32 and that I was absolutely wrong.

Now I'm a little concerned but I was sure it was 35 and I accidentally said 32 cause he walked in front of me.....So I confer with my partners about what I saw, reported and what the table gave me as info....I told them I was sure it was 35 but wanted to be sure ...they didn't have anything to offer to contradict what I saw and they said they were fine with my call...

After the game, another official tells me if this ever happens and the official is not sure that you can mark it as a team foul and not charge a player.....Is this correct and is there any provision for it in the case book?

I ask because it was 35's 5th foul during a very good, close game. I wanted to get clear on handling that. Perhaps I was wrong...it's not a big deal, but I want to get things correct......Red won the game in OT by the way...
What you learned: never, ever leave the spot of the foul without knowing who the foul is on.

Never.

While you're at it always know who will be shooting any free throws.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 11:11pm
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[QUOTE=blindzebra]This is why officials find themselves in trouble.

So the 6th grade girls don't deserve you doing it right?

Those games are not throw away games, in fact they may be the most useful games you will work. Screwy plays, tons of call selection choices, less physically taxing so you can work on using your off hand on dead ball signals and violation calls, crisp reporting, etc...

I absolutely despise the "it was just a kids game" attitude and excuse...do it right or don't do it at all.[/Q



You're assuming alot here aren't you Spartacus?

I'll let you in on another secret that may get your panties in a bunch. If a team is getting killed at half, we might give them the ball to start the second half, even though it may be the other team's(quick sit down before you faint). I also had a handicapped youngster awhile back in a game and we made sure he made it to the line for a free throw, which he made incidently.

You probably would have sent him to the bench for not having his jersey tucked in

Yeh, I know, a foul in the first two minutes is the same in the last two, no matter what level, what game.

Did some park district a few weeks ago, third grade girls..........guess what? I passed on a few dozen travels(shudder)

Hey, go grab that three second call on little Molly whose team is down by 30 in the fourth.

Put down the Merlot and quit pontificating.

Last edited by fullor30; Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 11:13pm.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 11:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullor30
[QUOTE=blindzebra]This is why officials find themselves in trouble.

So the 6th grade girls don't deserve you doing it right?

Those games are not throw away games, in fact they may be the most useful games you will work. Screwy plays, tons of call selection choices, less physically taxing so you can work on using your off hand on dead ball signals and violation calls, crisp reporting, etc...

I absolutely despise the "it was just a kids game" attitude and excuse...do it right or don't do it at all.[/Q



You're assuming alot here aren't you Spartacus?

I'll let you in on another secret that may get your panties in a bunch. If a team is getting killed at half, we might give them the ball to start the second half, even though it may be the other team's(quick sit down before you faint). I also had a handicapped youngster awhile back in a game and we made sure he made it to the line for a free throw, which he made incidently.

You probably would have sent him to the bench for not having his jersey tucked in

Yeh, I know, a foul in the first two minutes is the same in the last two, no matter what level, what game.

Did some park district a few weeks ago, third grade girls..........guess what? I passed on a few dozen travels(shudder)

Hey, go grab that three second call on little Molly whose team is down by 30 in the fourth.

Put down the Merlot and quit pontificating.

Put down the whistle and do all the officials, players and coaches in your area a favor.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 11:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra
Put down the whistle and do all the officials, players and coaches in your area a favor.

I can't, it's stuck up your rear.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 11:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullor30
I can't, it's stuck up your rear.
And I'd still use it better than you.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 11:50pm
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Does someone need some hot chocolate?
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 11:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra
And I'd still use it better than you.
That's because that's where your head is.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 11:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Does someone need some hot chocolate?

If he can put down the Merlot maybe.
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