Team or player control?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Player A1 is dribbling, closely guarded, at the top of the key. He picks up his dribble, and is still closely guarded. As I get to 4 in my count, he turns toward the back court, away from the defender, and simply drops the ball. As defender B1 attempts to get around him to retrieve the ball, A1 pushes him. I call the foul.

Is there team player control during this time that the ball is bouncing after he has dropped it, and is this a team control or player control foul? Please cite rule references to support your answer.

[Jurassic Referee]

Team control foul. Rule 4-12-3&4.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Thanks. I forgot to look it up when I got home last night. After it happened, I wasn't sure, but there was an interesting followup to this as well.

The play in question occurred with 31 seconds left in the quarter. It was the 7th team foul. We did not shoot FTs, but after the ensuing throw-in, there was not another dead ball until the break. So it could have been a correctable error up to the start of the next quarter. I discussed it with my partner and we decided it was a Team Control foul. Otherwise we could have started the next quarter with the FTs.

[Grail]

Team Control or Player Control doesn't matter. The penalty is the same. We don't shoot on either one.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by Grail

Team Control or Player Control doesn't matter. The penalty is the same. We don't shoot on either one.

Cant be player control......he doesnt have control of the ball!!!!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

Cant be player control......he doesnt have control of the ball!!!!

That wasn't his point. His point was in the end, it really doesn't matter. The penalty is the same either way.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

That wasn't his point. His point was in the end, it really doesn't matter. The penalty is the same either way.

Agreed. I think that they should now eliminate the player control foul. It is fully redundant.

The TC definition would need to inlcude the airborne shooter clause (as is in the PC definition) but other than that there is no difference.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Agreed. I think that they should now eliminate the player control foul. It is fully redundant.

Airborne A1 releases the ball on a try (ending team control) and then fouls B1.

It's a PC foul, even though there's no PC nor TC.

So, the can't just eliminate the PC foul. They could add to the TC foul, and then eliminate it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Airborne A1 releases the ball on a try (ending team control) and then fouls B1.

It's a PC foul, even though there's no PC nor TC.

So, the can't just eliminate the PC foul. They could add to the TC foul, and then eliminate it.

Uh, bob, did you skip my next sentence? It said exactly that.

[Scrapper1]

How about eliminating both the PC and TC fouls. Instead use the punch to indicate an "offensive foul" when a common foul is committed:

• by a player who is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds;
• by a teammate of a player who is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds;
• by an airborne player who has tapped or released the ball for a try for goal;
• by a member of the throw-in team between the time the ball is at the disposal of the inbounder and the time the throw-in pass is controlled (held or dribbled) inbounds.

This essentially makes the rule the same as the NBA and NCAA rules, but doesn't make any changes to the definition of team control.

[williebfree]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

We did not shoot FTs, but after the ensuing throw-in, there was not another dead ball until the break. So it could have been a correctable error up to the start of the next quarter.

Just a polite reminder for those who may forget.... A dead ball occurs after a made FG.