help with 3 man rotation

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

No it doesn't.

The drive belongs to whoever had the start of the drive. Lead has help defenders and is recommended to be at close down to ASSIST the C on drives from that side. The womens side calls it pinching the paint and wants lead to step down and back with one foot in the quicksand to HELP but it isn't leads primary call.

Then this 07-08 CCA men's manual that I am looking at is either crazy or poorly written, because there is a mechanics change in here for this year that states that "primary responsibility for block/charge calls inside the lane that are going to the basket reside with the lead official". There is then an illustration on page 23 for anyone who has the book...in the illustration the dribbler gets past the primary defender on a drive and collides with a secondary defender in the lane...it states that "the lead will have primary responsibility since the contact occurs in the lane area and will signal a foul resulting in a block or charge". Now it is true that in this example the contact occurs in the L's primary, but the drive came out of T's primary it appears in the diagram and they are still calling it L's responsibility..additionally, nowhere does it say that the L will only have primary responsibility for contact in the lane "in C's primary" which leads me to believe that this would be the same if the contact occurred on the other side of the lane...anybody else have a different interpretation fo this?

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Then this 07-08 CCA men's manual that I am looking at is either crazy or poorly written, because there is a mechanics change in here for this year that states that "primary responsibility for block/charge calls inside the lane that are going to the basket reside with the lead official". There is then an illustration on page 23 for anyone who has the book...in the illustration the dribbler gets past the primary defender on a drive and collides with a secondary defender in the lane...it states that "the lead will have primary responsibility since the contact occurs in the lane area and will signal a foul resulting in a block or charge". Now it is true that in this example the contact occurs in the L's primary, but the drive came out of T's primary it appears in the diagram and they are still calling it L's responsibility..additionally, nowhere does it say that the L will only have primary responsibility for contact in the lane "in C's primary" which leads me to believe that this would be the same if the contact occurred on the other side of the lane...anybody else have a different interpretation fo this?

You should be strong-side on drives to the hole a large majority of the time. If you are not, you are not getting ball-side nearly enough. Therefore, it should be somewhat rare when a player drives all the way to the hole from the weak-side, which should be handled by the C. On the strong-side, L should be getting the block/charge. The reason for the change is two-fold. First, a large majority of those block/charge calls occur due to secondary defenders, which is an L primary responsibility. The other reason is optics/perception: it looks better to everyone and is perceived as better when the lead makes that call, due to the proximity to the play. And yeah, I'm waiting for Captain Literal to say the same as when the drive comes from the C side, but read the first two lines of this.

To the OP: Get ball side when possible. If the ball is over there, and there are other players there too, get over, because the C cannot take the ball matchup and anyone else.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

You should be strong-side on drives to the hole a large majority of the time. If you are not, you are not getting ball-side nearly enough. Therefore, it should be somewhat rare when a player drives all the way to the hole from the weak-side, which should be handled by the C. On the strong-side, L should be getting the block/charge. The reason for the change is two-fold. First, a large majority of those block/charge calls occur due to secondary defenders, which is an L primary responsibility. The other reason is optics/perception: it looks better to everyone and is perceived as better when the lead makes that call, due to the proximity to the play. And yeah, I'm waiting for Captain Literal to say the same as when the drive comes from the C side, but read the first two lines of this.

To the OP: Get ball side when possible. If the ball is over there, and there are other players there too, get over, because the C cannot take the ball matchup and anyone else.

OK, but it IS a mechanics change right? That was my point that some others were disputing...my whole thing in all of this was just to make the point that when you are L and the action is coming from the opposite side, don't bail out on it, don't give up on it just b/c it isn't your primary. I agree with others that L should not be reaching across frequently, if he is, then he needs to get his behind over there more....but get wide as L and you can see everything going on, that way you are able to lend help to C on the rare occassion that you haven't rotated and he/she misses one...

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by kbilla

OK, but it IS a mechanics change right? That was my point that some others were disputing...my whole thing in all of this was just to make the point that when you are L and the action is coming from the opposite side, don't bail out on it, don't give up on it just b/c it isn't your primary. I agree with others that L should not be reaching across frequently, if he is, then he needs to get his behind over there more....but get wide as L and you can see everything going on, that way you are able to lend help to C on the rare occassion that you haven't rotated and he/she misses one...

No it isn't.

As has been said. The drive is officiated, and has been, with the T or C having the on-ball defender with L having secondary/help defenders.

Most B/C happen deep with that help defender. Lead ball-side has a great look at the offense leaving the floor and the guarding position of that help defender. Lead at close down, has a better idea of that help defender coming from their primary on a drive from C, so even without a rotation lead has the best look at the B/C.

The reason for the notation was:

One it's the way everyone was doing it and how it was being taught.

Two they hope it cuts down on blarges if T and C have hits and pushes on ball and lead only has the help defender and B/C.

There is also nothing in that notation that suggests that lead has the entire paint as you said eariler...in fact, what it says is EXACTLY what several people had already said and you disagreed with.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

No it isn't.

As has been said. The drive is officiated, and has been, with the T or C having the on-ball defender with L having secondary/help defenders.

Most B/C happen deep with that help defender. Lead ball-side has a great look at the offense leaving the floor and the guarding position of that help defender. Lead at close down, has a better idea of that help defender coming from their primary on a drive from C, so even without a rotation lead has the best look at the B/C.

The reason for the notation was:

One it's the way everyone was doing it and how it was being taught.

Two they hope it cuts down on blarges if T and C have hits and pushes on ball and lead only has the help defender and B/C.

There is also nothing in that notation that suggests that lead has the entire paint as you said eariler...in fact, what it says is EXACTLY what several people had already said and you disagreed with.

Can you explain then why it is called a "mechanics change" - do they typically put notations in a "mechanics change" section? Also the way it is stated says that "L has primary responsibility for blocks/charges INSIDE THE LANE"...as we both know L's primary is not the entire lane. Therefore is it a stretch to say that L has the primary responsibility for blocks/charges that occur outside of L's traditional primary? And relax getting all pissy already, I'm not "disagreeing" with anyone when it comes to the college mechanic, I'm not arrogant enough to assume that I have mastered it since I am new to it. All I am trying to do is determine if it is different from the NF mechanic, and understand how the CCA manual is written vs. how it is applied.....this whole thing goes back to the fact that L DOES need to reach across and help C at times both NF and NCAA, that was my whole point for bringing it up in the first place...

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Can you explain then why it is called a "mechanics change" - do they typically put notations in a "mechanics change" section? Also the way it is stated says that "L has primary responsibility for blocks/charges INSIDE THE LANE"...as we both know L's primary is not the entire lane. Therefore is it a stretch to say that L has the primary responsibility for blocks/charges that occur outside of L's traditional primary? And relax getting all pissy already, I'm not "disagreeing" with anyone when it comes to the college mechanic, I'm not arrogant enough to assume that I have mastered it since I am new to it. All I am trying to do is determine if it is different from the NF mechanic, and understand how the CCA manual is written vs. how it is applied.....this whole thing goes back to the fact that L DOES need to reach across and help C at times both NF and NCAA, that was my whole point for bringing it up in the first place...

You said, incorrectly, that lead had ALL THE PAINT not primary responsibility on one particular call.

You then said it's what the manual said, incorrectly, because the manual said EXACTLY what several said that lead had the secondary defender which usually is B/C.

As I clearly stated in my last post...the change was added because THAT IS HOW EVERYONE WAS DOING IT AND TEACHING IT.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

You said, incorrectly, that lead had ALL THE PAINT not primary responsibility on one particular call.

You then said it's what the manual said, incorrectly, because the manual said EXACTLY what several said that lead had the secondary defender which usually is B/C.

As I clearly stated in my last post...the change was added because THAT IS HOW EVERYONE WAS DOING IT AND TEACHING IT.

Ugh chat boards can be frustrating....I think this took on a direction that was never intended, I don't recall saying that the "lead has all of the paint", but if I said it in that way, if you read back through, the point I was intending to make to tomegun was that L CAN and DOES help out C on action that is not in his/her primary, ie. across the paint. I used the NCAA mechanic to make that point and I believe it does support that point with this mechanic change/emphasis/ whatever you want to call it, even if I didn't describe it 100% correctly - recall I didn't have the manual yesterday, I just quoted it this morning...I don't disagree with any of you re: the NCAA mechanic, all I am trying to figure out is, is this really a difference from NCAA and NF whereby in NCAA, L helps out on the block/charge with the secondary defender? It seems like if L has the ability to do this in NCAA, then L would also have the ability to do this in NF...

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Then this 07-08 CCA men's manual that I am looking at is either crazy or poorly written, because there is a mechanics change in here for this year that states that "primary responsibility for block/charge calls inside the lane that are going to the basket reside with the lead official". There is then an illustration on page 23 for anyone who has the book...in the illustration the dribbler gets past the primary defender on a drive and collides with a secondary defender in the lane...it states that "the lead will have primary responsibility since the contact occurs in the lane area and will signal a foul resulting in a block or charge". Now it is true that in this example the contact occurs in the L's primary, but the drive came out of T's primary it appears in the diagram and they are still calling it L's responsibility..additionally, nowhere does it say that the L will only have primary responsibility for contact in the lane "in C's primary" which leads me to believe that this would be the same if the contact occurred on the other side of the lane...anybody else have a different interpretation fo this?

This is correct the lead picks up the secondary defender.