help with 3 man rotation

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

I'm just amazed an assignor would give a 3 person varsity game to someone who it seems is not very familiar with it.

There are lots of states where the only chance to use 3-person mechanics is in varsity games. It was like that in the last state I was in, unless you were smart enough to split 2 checks 3 ways and do 3-man like that.

I had one 3-person scrimmage before doing my first ever 3-person varsity game. So it's not unheard of. That state also didn't have much for high school camps, there isn't an association or assignors that really push camps or scrimmages, and many areas of the state will give varsity contests as early as an official's first year.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Then this 07-08 CCA men's manual that I am looking at is either crazy or poorly written, because there is a mechanics change in here for this year that states that "primary responsibility for block/charge calls inside the lane that are going to the basket reside with the lead official". There is then an illustration on page 23 for anyone who has the book...in the illustration the dribbler gets past the primary defender on a drive and collides with a secondary defender in the lane...it states that "the lead will have primary responsibility since the contact occurs in the lane area and will signal a foul resulting in a block or charge". Now it is true that in this example the contact occurs in the L's primary, but the drive came out of T's primary it appears in the diagram and they are still calling it L's responsibility..additionally, nowhere does it say that the L will only have primary responsibility for contact in the lane "in C's primary" which leads me to believe that this would be the same if the contact occurred on the other side of the lane...anybody else have a different interpretation fo this?

This is correct the lead picks up the secondary defender.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

I'm just amazed an assignor would give a 3 person varsity game to someone who it seems is not very familiar with it.

Last year our playoffs went to 3 for the first time. There were a lot of officials working their first ever 3 man in district play. I worked a District final with 2 guys who worked their first ever 3 man game 2 nights before. States and associations need to do a better job of getting officials experience with 3 man mechanics at the lower levels so they are ready for varsity.

[Coltdoggs]

First, I want to say thanks for all the replies...I don't have the opportunity to work 3-person crews that often so this is helpful when they do throw 3 man at me.

One thing I was advised as L...If you are going to switch sides and force the rotation, GO, don't hesitate, just go...don't get half way and then bounce back to where you were at (or ping-pong) as someone stated it...I guess I did that the firt game I worked 3-person

Question I have for you guys as L...One guy told me to stay about a foot off the lane lines when L...focus on the paint obviously....Sitting here seems to go against the idea of moving to get the best angles.....is this correct or should the L be moving (maybe not as much as L in 2-person) ?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

First, I want to say thanks for all the replies...I don't have the opportunity to work 3-person crews that often so this is helpful when they do throw 3 man at me.

One thing I was advised as L...If you are going to switch sides and force the rotation, GO, don't hesitate, just go...don't get half way and then bounce back to where you were at (or ping-pong) as someone stated it...I guess I did that the firt game I worked 3-person

Question I have for you guys as L...One guy told me to stay about a foot off the lane lines when L...focus on the paint obviously....Sitting here seems to go against the idea of moving to get the best angles.....is this correct or should the L be moving (maybe not as much as L in 2-person) ?

Angles are more important than anything. Do what works for you. I tend to work deep and wide, and staying a foot off the lane lines is something I've never heard. I go as wide as I have to.

As to your first point about "GO", I agree 100%. I "close down" which means as the ball swings opposite I move close the lane line, but I don't enter the lane until I'm ready to rotate and then I go across to force the rotation. The only time I might go a couple steps into the lane then bounce back out is if I start to rotate and a shot goes up. You don't want to force a rotation during a try.

Just remember - go where you need to be to officiate the action. If the ball settles away from you and there is post action on that side, get over there sooner, not later. You'll get a feel for the offense and know when to anticipate post play, and when they're just swinging the ball to reverse it back.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

Question I have for you guys as L...One guy told me to stay about a foot off the lane lines when L...focus on the paint obviously....Sitting here seems to go against the idea of moving to get the best angles.....is this correct or should the L be moving (maybe not as much as L in 2-person) ?

Ping-pong is no good, but standing in cement is the other extreme. Someone earlier posted that the Lead should "mirror" the ball. That means that when the ball moves toward the C side, you "close down" -- move toward the C side -- to the lane line extended. This tells your partners you may be rotating. When the ball moves back toward the T's sideline, the Lead will back away from the lane, maybe 1/2 to 2/3 of the way to the 3-point arc, depending on the ball location.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by kbilla

OK, but it IS a mechanics change right? That was my point that some others were disputing...my whole thing in all of this was just to make the point that when you are L and the action is coming from the opposite side, don't bail out on it, don't give up on it just b/c it isn't your primary. I agree with others that L should not be reaching across frequently, if he is, then he needs to get his behind over there more....but get wide as L and you can see everything going on, that way you are able to lend help to C on the rare occassion that you haven't rotated and he/she misses one...

No it isn't.

As has been said. The drive is officiated, and has been, with the T or C having the on-ball defender with L having secondary/help defenders.

Most B/C happen deep with that help defender. Lead ball-side has a great look at the offense leaving the floor and the guarding position of that help defender. Lead at close down, has a better idea of that help defender coming from their primary on a drive from C, so even without a rotation lead has the best look at the B/C.

The reason for the notation was:

One it's the way everyone was doing it and how it was being taught.

Two they hope it cuts down on blarges if T and C have hits and pushes on ball and lead only has the help defender and B/C.

There is also nothing in that notation that suggests that lead has the entire paint as you said eariler...in fact, what it says is EXACTLY what several people had already said and you disagreed with.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by pghboy

Getting ready to do my first varsity 3 man game and would love some tips on how the rotation works.

Ok, you've gotten everyone's 2 cents worth here are probably in info overload.

I'm a derivative guy, and learn best by watching others.

You have some time, go catch as many three whistle games as you can and get a feel for it.

I sent you a PM regarding a DVD I can burn for you........

[bigdog5142]

Had my first three person in Dec...have my other varsity game Friday...weirdest thing for me was the decrease in calls that everyone makes. Overall, the same number of calls are made during the course of the game...it's just that YOU don't blow the whistle as much as there is another official. After my first game, I was thinking that I didn't blow the whistle as much...then I realized that with another official on the court...the calls are more spread out!

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

No it isn't.

As has been said. The drive is officiated, and has been, with the T or C having the on-ball defender with L having secondary/help defenders.

Most B/C happen deep with that help defender. Lead ball-side has a great look at the offense leaving the floor and the guarding position of that help defender. Lead at close down, has a better idea of that help defender coming from their primary on a drive from C, so even without a rotation lead has the best look at the B/C.

The reason for the notation was:

One it's the way everyone was doing it and how it was being taught.

Two they hope it cuts down on blarges if T and C have hits and pushes on ball and lead only has the help defender and B/C.

There is also nothing in that notation that suggests that lead has the entire paint as you said eariler...in fact, what it says is EXACTLY what several people had already said and you disagreed with.

Can you explain then why it is called a "mechanics change" - do they typically put notations in a "mechanics change" section? Also the way it is stated says that "L has primary responsibility for blocks/charges INSIDE THE LANE"...as we both know L's primary is not the entire lane. Therefore is it a stretch to say that L has the primary responsibility for blocks/charges that occur outside of L's traditional primary? And relax getting all pissy already, I'm not "disagreeing" with anyone when it comes to the college mechanic, I'm not arrogant enough to assume that I have mastered it since I am new to it. All I am trying to do is determine if it is different from the NF mechanic, and understand how the CCA manual is written vs. how it is applied.....this whole thing goes back to the fact that L DOES need to reach across and help C at times both NF and NCAA, that was my whole point for bringing it up in the first place...

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Can you explain then why it is called a "mechanics change" - do they typically put notations in a "mechanics change" section? Also the way it is stated says that "L has primary responsibility for blocks/charges INSIDE THE LANE"...as we both know L's primary is not the entire lane. Therefore is it a stretch to say that L has the primary responsibility for blocks/charges that occur outside of L's traditional primary? And relax getting all pissy already, I'm not "disagreeing" with anyone when it comes to the college mechanic, I'm not arrogant enough to assume that I have mastered it since I am new to it. All I am trying to do is determine if it is different from the NF mechanic, and understand how the CCA manual is written vs. how it is applied.....this whole thing goes back to the fact that L DOES need to reach across and help C at times both NF and NCAA, that was my whole point for bringing it up in the first place...

You said, incorrectly, that lead had ALL THE PAINT not primary responsibility on one particular call.

You then said it's what the manual said, incorrectly, because the manual said EXACTLY what several said that lead had the secondary defender which usually is B/C.

As I clearly stated in my last post...the change was added because THAT IS HOW EVERYONE WAS DOING IT AND TEACHING IT.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

You said, incorrectly, that lead had ALL THE PAINT not primary responsibility on one particular call.

You then said it's what the manual said, incorrectly, because the manual said EXACTLY what several said that lead had the secondary defender which usually is B/C.

As I clearly stated in my last post...the change was added because THAT IS HOW EVERYONE WAS DOING IT AND TEACHING IT.

Ugh chat boards can be frustrating....I think this took on a direction that was never intended, I don't recall saying that the "lead has all of the paint", but if I said it in that way, if you read back through, the point I was intending to make to tomegun was that L CAN and DOES help out C on action that is not in his/her primary, ie. across the paint. I used the NCAA mechanic to make that point and I believe it does support that point with this mechanic change/emphasis/ whatever you want to call it, even if I didn't describe it 100% correctly - recall I didn't have the manual yesterday, I just quoted it this morning...I don't disagree with any of you re: the NCAA mechanic, all I am trying to figure out is, is this really a difference from NCAA and NF whereby in NCAA, L helps out on the block/charge with the secondary defender? It seems like if L has the ability to do this in NCAA, then L would also have the ability to do this in NF...