end of game timing issue

[TD21]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yup. And your point is?

We're talking about a specific situation; a situation where the clock may have not been stopped properly. To wit, we're discussing the application of rule 5-10. In the case being discussed, if the decision by the calling official is that the timer actually did stop the clock correctly in the granting of the TO request, then no adjustment can be made. The quarter is over. However, if the decision is made that the timer did not stop the clock correctly, then we have to determine IF we can put time back on the clock using definite knowledge. If so, what is then in dispute is when we apply that definite knowledge. I'm saying that you apply it when you grant the TO, as per the rule that I cited. You're saying that you can't apply the definite knowledge until after the stop-clock mechanic is completely over. Obviously, I disagree because I'm going by the strict language of rule 5-8-3.

See where I'm coming from now? I didn't expect TD21 to understand all that. Even though he dwells in the mythical and magical Land of College and Above, it's still simply beyond his capabilities. I sureasheck expected that you would though.

I fully understand the rule and its application. You've used the wording many times here, when you GRANT the timeout. It says GRANT, not when you decide in your head that you will grant the timeout. The definite knowledge has to do with a timing error, not an official being too slow in blowing his/her whistle and using the proper stop clock mechanics. I you didn't blow your whistle until 2 seconds after the horn went off are you going to go tell the coach, that you were thinking about blowing it at .8 but waiting because you know you are allowed to put time back on? The definite knowledge has to do with excess time running off the clock due to a timing error. Human reaction time, an official being slow is not one of the elements that allows us to put time back on. If it is I'd like to see where it says the official is allowed to put time back on the clock if he failed to blow his whistle in time to prevent the clock operator a chance to stop the clock before time expired.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I was going to ask you about this, because I've always been taught in this type of situation to grant the timeout. Obviously it looked terrible in your situation because there was such a delay...

The better scenario is after a made basket by B, Coach B requests a TO and I see this request and wish to grant it, but in the time between when I register the request and when I start blowing my whistle, A gathers the ball. In your reading, I shouldn't grant the TO, correct? This is one I've always been taught, and always have, granted. Same in a "scrum heading to a held ball" or a trap with violation or foul type of scenario. If the request came before and as an official I just didn't process fast enough, I should grant the TO.

Interested in your and others' thoughts?

It's okay to be a tad late because you are visually confirming that it is indeed the HEAD coach who is making the request. That is usually accepted without a problem. However, timing is everything in a play like this and the later that you are the more grief it is going to cause.