Partner with different philosophy

[ABO77]

Im a new Jv official so I dont get to have long elaborate pre-games before the game, so...if you have a partner that has a different way of calling the game as you, how do you guys/gals adjust (or not) your style of officiating?

Ex, I tend to call the game a little tight early in the game and let the players adjust accordingly BUT some officials let them play a little early in the game and THEN adjust their calls to the style of play. Im not aurguing which way is better however Im wondering how you handle this sit and others similar to it.

Do you change the way you call the game according to how your partner calls it? If so to what degree? Or do you stick to your philosophy the whole game irregardless ( ) of what your partner calls...which might lead to conflicting calls ?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ABO77

Im a new Jv official so I dont get to have long elaborate pre-games before the game, so...if you have a partner that has a different way of calling the game as you, how do you guys/gals adjust (or not) your style of officiating?

Ex, I tend to call the game a little tight early in the game and let the players adjust accordingly BUT some officials let them play a little early in the game and THEN adjust their calls to the style of play. Im not aurguing which way is better however Im wondering how you handle this sit and others similar to it.

Do you change the way you call the game according to how your partner calls it? If so to what degree? Or do you stick to your philosophy the whole game irregardless ( ) of what your partner calls...which might lead to conflicting calls ?

The only major way I adjust is if my partner is calling a particular thing, I might go looking to see if I can get a similar foul. But if it is not there I am not going to make it up or assume I am missing anything.

I also do not like the terminology "calling it tight" or "calling it loose." I call the game from and advantage/disadvantage and not every game has the same level of advantage or disadvantage in those games. This just comes with time and learning how to officiate with others. There is not a magic formula.

Peace

[lpbreeze]

I learned to call it my way although the ref can have somewhat of an influence on that. If my partner wants few fouls or a tight game then I might go a bit toward that but overall do your own way and things should work out. work together but don't let one dictate how the game is going to be called.

[Nevadaref]

When one tries to officiate in a manner other than what is normal for that individual, one frequently fails.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

I learned to call it my way although the ref can have somewhat of an influence on that. If my partner wants few fouls or a tight game then I might go a bit toward that but overall do your own way and things should work out. work together but don't let one dictate how the game is going to be called.

Why does "the ref" have any influence? Does his toss of the ball influence your next 32 minutes?

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by ABO77

Im a new Jv official so I dont get to have long elaborate pre-games before the game, so...if you have a partner that has a different way of calling the game as you, how do you guys/gals adjust (or not) your style of officiating?

Ex, I tend to call the game a little tight early in the game and let the players adjust accordingly BUT some officials let them play a little early in the game and THEN adjust their calls to the style of play. Im not aurguing which way is better however Im wondering how you handle this sit and others similar to it.

Do you change the way you call the game according to how your partner calls it? If so to what degree? Or do you stick to your philosophy the whole game irregardless ( ) of what your partner calls...which might lead to conflicting calls ?

IMO there are a few items that are reasonable to "adjust" based on how your partners are calling the game - and I say partners b/c to me it doesn't matter who has what "philosophy" be it the R or whoever, you are all out there calling the game once it goes up and neither coach could care less what calls the R makes vs. the other two officials...one item that should be consistent is the illegal screen. If my partner gets one at one end I am going to be on high alert for one on the other end - again not fishing per se, but if there is one there I am going to get it. The other item is carrying the basketball. Same thing, if A's point guard does it and my partner gets it, I am going to be watching B's point guard also...and God forbid we get a 3-second on one end, you better be watching the other end as well...other than that, there isn't a whole lot you can do IMO. First of all if your partner has a common foul in their PCA, you aren't going to necessarily know how "tight" they are calling it b/c most likely you are off ball - how are you going to know what to adjust? Like I said JMO, but other than those few items, I just call my own game, worrying about adjusting too much can get you into trouble..

[Vinski]

In my brief carrier, one thing that I have noticed that varies frequently among different calling styles is traveling. Especially in lower level games where you see more of it. However, some refs call it tight regardless of the level. Try to grab at least a few seconds and discuss this with your partner if you can. When you have one ref calling travel on every little drag or slight stammer and the other official is letting some of those things go, the lopsided calling is obvious. However, as Nevada stated, if you try to change your officiating style to match someone else’s, you will not be happy with your self afterwards.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Vinski

In my brief carrier, one thing that I have noticed that varies frequently among different calling styles is traveling. Especially in lower level games where you see more of it. However, some refs call it tight regardless of the level. Try to grab at least a few seconds and discuss this with your partner if you can. When you have one ref calling travel on every little drag or slight stammer and the other official is letting some of those things go, the lopsided calling is obvious. However, as Nevada stated, if you try to change your officiating style to match someone else’s, you will not be happy with your self afterwards.

I have a different theory on traveling. If you call it consistently in the lower levels, then they learn and it won't be a problem in the higher levels. Currently in the higher levels, college and high school, I tend to call the obvious traveling calls. If I can't get it the first time, because it may be borderline, to quick or ugly, then it is probably either not traveling or getting kicked. Regardless of what same may think on here, assignors have a problem with officials who want to over officiate and constantly interrupt the game with borderline, non-advantageous calls like a slight/possible travel, or slightly stepping over the endline on a throw-in after a basket.

And I guess since I may be your first response, I think you meant to say "career" vs. carrier.

[Junker]

This is a good subject for pregame. Obviously you don't tell someone how to call a game, but you can discuss patient whistles, not bailing out shooters, handchecks, illegal screens and stuch. I agree that after that you should call your game. When you change what you do you get yourself in trouble. I tried to do some adjustment in a JUCO game this season and I wish I wouldn't have. I made a call to help with "consistancy" that I normally woulnd't have and the coach knew me and knew I shouldn't have called it. It was a good learning experience. From here on out I call my game.

[JoeTheRef]

When in Rome... I hear that often on here and I have to agree with it. Had a college game this year where I told the "R" during a timeout that I am having a philosophical dilemma. I've been trained all summer long not to make the calls he wanted me to make, and it kind of screwed my head up for the 1st half. After I told him that, I called the game that HE wanted, which I didn't have a problem doing because it was probably like I would call a high school game. Just to clarify, I've been told countless times this entire summer, this ain't high school, at this level the girls can play through some stuff.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by ABO77

so...if you have a partner that has a different way of calling the game as you

You mean in a foreign language or something like that? Sometimes I call the game in pig-latin. It sounds like this:

"Iyay avehay ayay echnicaltay onyay ethay ueblay oachcay. At'sthay ishay econdsay irectday echnicaltay ofyay ethay amegay andyay ehay isyay isqualifiedday. Ifyay ehay oesn'tday etgay outyay ofyay erehay ightray ownay, I'llyay akemay imhay ishway ehay adhay evernay eenbay ornbay."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

When in Rome... I hear that often on here and I have to agree with it. Had a college game this year where I told the "R" during a timeout that I am having a philosophical dilemma. I've been trained all summer long not to make the calls he wanted me to make, and it kind of screwed my head up for the 1st half. After I told him that, I called the game that HE wanted, which I didn't have a problem doing because it was probably like I would call a high school game. Just to clarify, I've been told countless times this entire summer, this ain't high school, at this level the girls can play through some stuff.

Since when does the referee dictate how you officiate?

[JS 20]

This is my 7th year as a referee but my first year of HS (F and JV) ball. I've done a ton of middle school, men's rec and intramurals since I was 18. Being my first year, that's the biggest thing I've had to adjust to is working w/ veteran guys who want to control the game a certain way and I really don't agree with it. One guy told me he wouldn't call any fouls in the first minute of the game unless it was blatant and had to be called. This wasn't so bad. Other guys have had the "well if fouls are 7-1, i'm going to find one) theories which I totally object to.

I'm interested to see what my philosophies are in 10 years. Honestly, as a first year guy, I don't care what my partner calls or how he calls. I'm going to call what I see, when I see it. Sure, I let some contact go, I know the difference b/w a ticky tack foul and an obvious foul. But still I don't think it's fair to "find one" b/c fouls are lopsided, or to not call a travel that's not obvious but still a travel just b/c you called one two posessions ago. Keep the players from breaking the rules and let them decide the game.

[JS 20]

Originally Posted by kbilla

IMO there are a few items that are reasonable to "adjust" based on how your partners are calling the game - and I say partners b/c to me it doesn't matter who has what "philosophy" be it the R or whoever, you are all out there calling the game once it goes up and neither coach could care less what calls the R makes vs. the other two officials...one item that should be consistent is the illegal screen. If my partner gets one at one end I am going to be on high alert for one on the other end - again not fishing per se, but if there is one there I am going to get it. The other item is carrying the basketball. Same thing, if A's point guard does it and my partner gets it, I am going to be watching B's point guard also...and God forbid we get a 3-second on one end, you better be watching the other end as well...other than that, there isn't a whole lot you can do IMO. First of all if your partner has a common foul in their PCA, you aren't going to necessarily know how "tight" they are calling it b/c most likely you are off ball - how are you going to know what to adjust? Like I said JMO, but other than those few items, I just call my own game, worrying about adjusting too much can get you into trouble..

I really disagree with this. You don't (and shouldn't) have any idea why your partner called the 3 seconds. He could have told the player the last 3 times down the floor to get out of the lane and then finally got him b/c he wouldn't listen. That players inability to adjust shouldn't dictate you being any more willing to call 3 seconds on the other team than you normally would be.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by JS 20

This is my 7th year as a referee but my first year of HS (F and JV) ball. I've done a ton of middle school, men's rec and intramurals since I was 18. Being my first year, that's the biggest thing I've had to adjust to is working w/ veteran guys who want to control the game a certain way and I really don't agree with it. One guy told me he wouldn't call any fouls in the first minute of the game unless it was blatant and had to be called. This wasn't so bad. Other guys have had the "well if fouls are 7-1, i'm going to find one) theories which I totally object to.

I'm interested to see what my philosophies are in 10 years. Honestly, as a first year guy, I don't care what my partner calls or how he calls. I'm going to call what I see, when I see it. Sure, I let some contact go, I know the difference b/w a ticky tack foul and an obvious foul. But still I don't think it's fair to "find one" b/c fouls are lopsided, or to not call a travel that's not obvious but still a travel just b/c you called one two posessions ago. Keep the players from breaking the rules and let them decide the game.

Did you ever wonder why it took you 7 years of middle school and wreck ball just to get a taste of high school ball, Fresh & JV at that?? I'm not saying what you're saying is right or wrong, to each his own. I was just curious if you ever wondered or questioned where you are in your career path and why you are where you are. I am in my 7th year of officiating and currently working my first year of College (NCAA-W DII) and our philosophies differ in many ways. If you ever decide to question yourself, start with your statement highlighted above. JMO

Edited: JS, I can't say what I said without elaborating. You should care what your partners are calling and how they are calling the game. First thing I say in my pregame, and I don't care if I have a more veteran ref or newbie ref on my crew, is that we are going to call this game on the same sheet of music. Or in other words, we are going to be consistent tonight as a crew. Whether that is going to be consistently good or consistently bad, we are going to be consistent. Now if I have you calling stuff all over the court that you see and you judge as a "foul" and it's not consistent with the crew or the flow of the game, I'm calling you out at the first timeout we get. You my friend can cause havoc in a game with the mentality of the highlighted portion of your post. Again my .02.