Partner with different philosophy

[FrankHtown]

Joe, that was a very supercilious response. There are a number of factors that contribute to where a person is on their career path, not all of them having to do with knowing the rules or how to call a game.

I, for example, am in my 50's. I have no aspiration to graduate to JUCO, Division II or Division I or the NBA. But I go to camps every year to be the best High School ref I can be. I have no desire to start travelling 3 hours by car to get to some JUCO game that starts at 7:30 pm, and get home at 1am, then get back up at 5:30 to go to work.

[FrankHtown]

Joe,
Thank you for the edit....You expressed yourself very well.

[JS 20]

Joe, I respect your perspective and your opinion. I simply disagree. I think we're both being a bit vague and probably would agree if we actually had a conversation about it not shortened by typing on the computer. I don't call all over the court or anything like that. I understand consistency. If there's 3 minutes left and the game is tied, I'll go to my partner during a timeout and we'll talk about things like "hey we haven't called 3 seconds all night, haven't done thsi or that, etc" and make sure we stay consistent. But if in that 3 minutes i keep telling a kid to get out of the lane and he doesn't, i'm going to get him.

Regarding your highlight of my response, I need to elaborate. At this point, I'm concerned w/ calling the game accurately while maintaining good mechanics. The game hasn't slowed down enough yet for me to have the same thoughts and theories as my veteran partners IMO.

In reply to wondering how it took me so long to get a taste of HS ball, I started at 18, I was in college for 4 years and I've traveled quite a bit for work until this year. I didn't have the time to dedicate to it. Don't assume I'm terrible b/c of my experience level or anything like that. Good for you on working college games in your 7th year. I hope I can move up in the ranks just as fast as you did.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

Did you ever wonder why it took you 7 years of middle school and wreck ball just to get a taste of high school ball, Fresh & JV at that?? I'm not saying what you're saying is right or wrong, to each his own. I was just curious if you ever wondered or questioned where you are in your career path and why you are where you are. I am in my 7th year of officiating and currently working my first year of College (NCAA-W DII) and our philosophies differ in many ways. If you ever decide to question yourself, start with your statement highlighted above. JMO

Edited: JS, I can't say what I said without elaborating. You should care what your partners are calling and how they are calling the game. First thing I say in my pregame, and I don't care if I have a more veteran ref or newbie ref on my crew, is that we are going to call this game on the same sheet of music. Or in other words, we are going to be consistent tonight as a crew. Whether that is going to be consistently good or consistently bad, we are going to be consistent. Now if I have you calling stuff all over the court that you see and you judge as a "foul" and it's not consistent with the crew or the flow of the game, I'm calling you out at the first timeout we get. You my friend can cause havoc in a game with the mentality of the highlighted portion of your post. Again my .02.

So you dictate how the other officials call games?

I find it just isn't that way once you've been doing this a while. Your philosophies aren't going to be THAT different and all officials, if they care, are going to try to meet in the middle.

It's this "I'm the ref and you're going to call it my way" crap I saw earlier in this thread that I think is nonsense. I'm not saying that's what you said above, so if we're on the same page, let me know. Good R's will slide to their partners as much as the partners adjust to them.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

1. So you dictate how the other officials call games?

2. I find it just isn't that way once you've been doing this a while. Your philosophies aren't going to be THAT different and all officials, if they care, are going to try to meet in the middle.

3. It's this "I'm the ref and you're going to call it my way" crap I saw earlier in this thread that I think is nonsense. I'm not saying that's what you said above, so if we're on the same page, let me know. Good R's will slide to their partners as much as the partners adjust to them.

1. No I do not or try not to dictate how officials call games. I've been on that end of the stick where that "Veteran" puts so much stuff in your game it has your head spinning.
2. I totally agree and this is really the point I was trying to express.
3. This is not what I was saying (bold/underline). Good R's, U1s, U2s will slide to their partners as much as the partners adjust to them.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by JS 20

I really disagree with this. You don't (and shouldn't) have any idea why your partner called the 3 seconds. He could have told the player the last 3 times down the floor to get out of the lane and then finally got him b/c he wouldn't listen. That players inability to adjust shouldn't dictate you being any more willing to call 3 seconds on the other team than you normally would be.

We'll just have to disagree on this one then...hey I'm not saying count by 2's, but if my partner gets a three second call on A, then instead of B getting a "get out get out get out", they might only get one "get out" before the call on that end..3-seconds is probably the most preventively officiated item during the game, there is certainly plenty of opportunity given both sides to avoid it...

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

Joe, that was a very supercilious response. There are a number of factors that contribute to where a person is on their career path, not all of them having to do with knowing the rules or how to call a game.

I, for example, am in my 50's. I have no aspiration to graduate to JUCO, Division II or Division I or the NBA. But I go to camps every year to be the best High School ref I can be. I have no desire to start travelling 3 hours by car to get to some JUCO game that starts at 7:30 pm, and get home at 1am, then get back up at 5:30 to go to work.

FrankHtown - you win today's Shakespeare award for using the word "supercilious" correctly in a post. Congratulations - we're not used to such "high class" words here.

Now, if you only hadn't misspelled "traveling".

[cdaref]

I think Joe is right on, though he perhaps expressed himself poorly and came across as that ref that tells others how to call their game. I dont think that is what he is saying.

Back to the Original Poster:

Two things for you:

1. Your big problem is that you arent having a good pregame. Just because it is JV is no excuse to not have a good pregame. Get there an hour to 45 minutes ahead of time. Contact your partner a day or more ahead of time and make sure they will be there ahead of time too. If there is some reason they cant be (which there shouldnt be or they shouldnt have taken the game) then email each other or talk through things on the phone. You are cheating yourself and the players if you dont pregame as a crew. It is one of the most important things you can do. Do not tolerate partners that wont pregame or that skip pregames or that show up late. The pregame is the perfect time to "get on the same page" about fouls and philosophy.

2. Consistency is key. You'll find that the more experienced officials develop constiency and a flow to the games they work. Good officials seem to adjust a bit to their partners to make sure their whistles are the same as their partners. This isnt telling others how to call a game, it is making sure the crew is consistent. Becuase you arent out there to call your game, you are there as part of a crew that is repsonsible for calling the game. While you may only be able to control what you do, you need to work together as a crew.

It all starts in the pregame. Discuss with your partner how to handle press, and handchecks on the perimeter and talk through how each sees some common situations. Talk through contact in the post and displacement and rebounding position. You should have agreement. You guys should settle on that in your pregame. That is what it is for.

If you and your partner have the same whistle for things it really improves the flow of the game, it makes it easier for players to adjust and the whole feel of the crew is improved.

Being on the same page does not mean going out and looking for cheesy calls that arent there. Dont go find a lame keyhole call just to balance out your partner. BUT you should have pregamed how you handle kids in the key--we will talk to them, tell them to get out, if they dont listen, we whistle it. Just because that happened on your partner's end doesnt mean that you should make a call. But you should both be applying the same philosophy on both ends.

As you get more experienced you will get better at knowing what your partner is up to even though you are concentrating on your area and your responsibilites. Abnd you both will start to adjust ever so slightly to each other. That is, in my opinion, a hallmark of real good crews.

But bottom line is this--pregame this stuff and simply dont permit your partner to skip pregame. Particularly for a young official, pregames are crucial. Funny, but it always seems to be the awesome senior officials I work with who want to pregame and the lazy JV officials who dont. Gee, I wonder why each is where they are?

Good luck!