Philosophy and How many "T"s?

[Ron Pilo]

Perhaps had you "T'd" the first player (excited or not) then you would not have had to deal with that situation. Afterall it is a Highschool Varsity game, not a Junior High game. The players should know better.

What if the coach of the other team wanted you to inforce the rule as specified in the rule book. (I believe 5 T's?) Then what?

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Ron
Seattle Officials - Women's Basketball

[David Wenger]

Ron makes a good point, while your intent was
good, every time I have ever overlooked something like your situation it has come back to haunt me at some point.

[divey]

Hello Fellow Officials! I ran into this web site recently and have enjoyed all of your postings very much. While our "Bible" or NF Rules Book pretty much states things in black and white, there always seems to be different interpretations of different rules. That is why I believe this type of forum can only make us better officials-through our discussions. Be flexable and willing to change as you grow into and experienced referee!
Remember: "If you always do what you've always done-you will always be what you've always been."

Enough Philosophy- Here is a situation I am discussing at our association meeting tonight.

The following happened the other night in a Boys H.S. Varsity game.
Player A6 was excited about getting into the game so he just ran in, during a dead ball, without checking in at the scorer's bench. I happen to be right in front of Team A's bench when player A6 came onto the court. I realize I could have given the player a "T" but instead asked the Coach to make sure his players checked in at the scorer's table and wait to be beckoned in before coming on the court.
Note: This game was being broadcast on a local radio station and the commentators even mentioned my warning to the Team A Coach.
Later in the game, 4th quarter, with visiting Team A leading by 20pts. The Team A Coach made a wholesale change and substituted all 5 players on the floor. The only problem was none of the Subs. checked in or was beckoned in during the dead ball.
It was a nice switch if it had been a Hockey game, but since it was a H.S. Basketball game and the scorer's table were very upset, they did not get any of oth subs numbers, we had a "T" on 5 bench personnel.
My questions I will pose to our Assoc. members are these:
*How many Tech. fouls?
*How many shots for Team B?
*How many indirect Tech. fouls for Team A coach?
*How many fouls toward Bonus?
*And where do you find this in the Rules or Case Books.

Here's what my partner and I did:
*One Team Technical Foul.
*2 shots and ball at Div. line opp. scorer.
*One indirect Technical Foul for Team A coach.
*1 foul toward Team B's Bonus.
*Rule Book 10-4-2,5 Case Book similar situation pg. 75 10.5g

Any other places addressing these situations? Thanks, Dan
Sorry so long winded!!

[ken roberts]

By rule (10-2), each sub would get a Tech and you would shoot 10 free-throws. No indirect T is to be given to the coach. Since 5 T's were given, obviously, this counts as five fouls to the bonus.

Now i agree that the penalty of 5 T's doesn't exactly fit the crime here. Giving one T for failure to control the bench is a decent compromise, but isn't supported by the rules. I would have just sent all the players back to the table, make them check-in, and not let them enter until the next dead-ball...

[Hawker]

Looks to me that you did the right things. It's a very similiar situation to the wrong numbers in the book at the start of the game. You only have one T, not five.

[Indy_Ref]

I am caught in the middle here. I agree that Divey ruled the correct way, however, I also agree with Ron in that a technical foul should have been given at that first infraction. That first technical would have prevented the second situation, plus, it was a VARSITY game.

To answer Ron's question about the "What if the opposing coach would have wanted to enforce the rule of 5 T's?" It would be nice if we could say, "Coach, in our case book on page 75, Play 10.5G, it says to only give one T and...", but that isn't realistic. If the situation never happens to us in a game, it is sometimes difficult to decide how to rule if an infraction doesn't perfectly meet the circumstances outlined in the "bible."

It would be VERY difficult to know the "in and outs" of EVERY rule in the book. If we needed to know these in and outs for every rule in order to be deemed "a good ref" or even "a great ref" then we would have hardly any officials determined to be of that caliber. Instead, I believe that in a situation where you may not be sure of the ABSOLUTE CORRECT ruling on a play, we must use our common sense and go with it. Then later, study the play, ask other officials, study our "bibles", and determine if you ruled correctly:

The real signs of a truly "great" official.

[This message has been edited by Indy_Ref (edited January 11, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Indy_Ref (edited January 11, 2000).]

[Ron Pilo]

Actually the RULE 10-4-2 says:
Bench personnel shall not: Enter the court unless by permission of an official to attend an injured player.

PENALTY: (Arts. 1, 2, 3) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. The foul is charged to the offender (5 offenders) and also charged indirectly (5 indirects, althought they are gone at 3) to the head coach.

So if we had a situation like this happen the offended coach should get 10 freethrows and the ball as well as an ejection of the offender for 5 indirect "T's". A little severe(sp?) Yep! Call the "T" on the first player early in the game and you probably won't have to deal with THIS later.

In a Varsity game we can't be enforcing on not enforcing rules to our liking because we may not like the outcome.


However. if I was a quick thinking official (which I am sometimes) I might crack my whistle for a timeout charged to the offending team and when that coach says something I would go explain to him/her 10-4-2. I think they would understand what you just did for him/her, don't you?

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Ron
Seattle Officials - Women's Basketball


[This message has been edited by Ron Pilo (edited January 11, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Ron Pilo (edited January 11, 2000).]