Ball Handler Pushoff

[Matt S.]

Quality JV boys game (fast, aggressive defense on both sides)...

I call 3 PC fouls on the offensive ball-handler for extending the non-dribbling arm to create space...coach thinks I'm nuts, but the defenders are holding their arms straight up (after I'd already called a few on them for swatting at the ball and missing)

Do you think coaches understand this rule, and how often do you call a PC on the pushoff?

(Ended up T-ing the losing coach with about 45 seconds left when he said I was "out of my mind" to the whole gym...but that's a whole other topic!!!)

[chartrusepengui]

extending the non-dribbling arm to create space

is there contact?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Matt S.

Quality JV boys game (fast, aggressive defense on both sides)...

I call 3 PC fouls on the offensive ball-handler for extending the non-dribbling arm to create space...coach thinks I'm nuts, but the defenders are holding their arms straight up (after I'd already called a few on them for swatting at the ball and missing)

Do you think coaches understand this rule, and how often do you call a PC on the pushoff?

(Ended up T-ing the losing coach with about 45 seconds left when he said I was "out of my mind" to the whole gym...but that's a whole other topic!!!)

If the defender has LGP and the dribbler pushes them away, then a PC call is certainly a valid call. But like chartrusie said, there has to be contact, not just holding the arm out there...same as the "swatting at the ball and missing" isn't a foul while "swatting at the ball and hitting the dribbler's arm" would be a foul.

[Splute]

I agree this is a good PC call if there is contact. One of my pet peeves, if you will. Dribbler pushes off defender then breaks for the basket. Almost as bad as the offense pushing the defense out of their spot in the low post. Which many only catch the defense pushing back..... and when I call it, the coach doesnt like it.... pretty much the same response you got. If I recall the rules correctly, the dribbler can not use the forearm to keep the defender from the ball either. Therefore if the defender is making an attempt for the ball and the dribbler uses his forearm to prevent the defense from normal defensive moves and there is contact; this would also be PC. Correct?

[just another ref]

I see this as a case that is often misunderstood/miscalled both ways. The dribblers sticks the arm out, but no contact. The crowd, in perfect unison:
"He's pushing off!" Or the defender is lunging to try a steal and is hopelessly out of position, but before he can commit the blocking foul, the dribbler reacts, changes direction, and sticks out a forearm shiver to ward off the attack.

[lpbreeze]

different question but on the contact part- i had coaches saying out of bounds and the other saying block

if A1 is dribbling near the sideline toward her frountcourt. B1 gets in her way and it will clearly be a blocking foul but A1 steps out of bounds. There was little or no contact. I called a blocking foul because A1 was forced to go out of bounds. Was this the right call or can there be a blocking foul without contact?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

different question but on the contact part- i had coaches saying out of bounds and the other saying block

if A1 is dribbling near the sideline toward her frountcourt. B1 gets in her way and it will clearly be a blocking foul but A1 steps out of bounds. There was little or no contact. I called a blocking foul because A1 was forced to go out of bounds. Was this the right call or can there be a blocking foul without contact?

Sounds like the right call to me. No contact, no block

[FrankHtown]

I had this exact same play and almost came up with a block, but then realized there was no contact. OOB on the dribbler.

[lpbreeze]

ok thanks. . There was very little contact but perhaps if their arms hit or light body contact there could be a block call. I'm thinking I might get a player who says "what am I supposed to do, crash into the defender?"

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

different question but on the contact part- i had coaches saying out of bounds and the other saying block

if A1 is dribbling near the sideline toward her frountcourt. B1 gets in her way and it will clearly be a blocking foul but A1 steps out of bounds. There was little or no contact. I called a blocking foul because A1 was forced to go out of bounds. Was this the right call or can there be a blocking foul without contact?

The very definition of a personal foul is illegal contact on an opponent. Your question about the play is a little unclear; in one part you say there was a little contact, but your final question asks if there can be a foul with no contact.

So, to answer your last question first - no, you cannot have a blocking foul with no contact.

In your play description, if you feel there was just enough contact by the defense to force A1 to step OOB, then it sounds like a foul. If you feel A1 was going to step OOB before the contact, then it's a violation on A1. Judgement call.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by Matt S.

Quality JV boys game (fast, aggressive defense on both sides)...

I call 3 PC fouls on the offensive ball-handler for extending the non-dribbling arm to create space...coach thinks I'm nuts, but the defenders are holding their arms straight up (after I'd already called a few on them for swatting at the ball and missing)
Do you think coaches understand this rule, and how often do you call a PC on the pushoff?

(Ended up T-ing the losing coach with about 45 seconds left when he said I was "out of my mind" to the whole gym...but that's a whole other topic!!!)

You need to clarify all of this...was there contact?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

ok thanks. . There was very little contact but perhaps if their arms hit or light body contact there could be a block call. I'm thinking I might get a player who says "what am I supposed to do, crash into the defender?"

If the contact caused them to go OOB, call the block (assuming the defender was not in LGP). Otherwise, call the OOB. Sometimes the dribbler dribbles into a situation that they should have avoided. What they "should" have done was not even go there if the defender was cutting them off.

[TheOracle]

It goes farther than contact. If the contact results in displacement, or it affects the balance, speed, or quickness of the defender, it's a foul. Going to be a tough sell for a dribbler to block a reach attempt to protect the ball unless that then allows him to beat the defender. Otherwise, these can be incidental contact with no whistle. No absolute right or wrong.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

ok thanks. . There was very little contact but perhaps if their arms hit or light body contact there could be a block call. I'm thinking I might get a player who says "what am I supposed to do, crash into the defender?"

Take the out of bounds out of the equation. If there was enough contact that you would have called a foul in the middle of the floor, then call a foul here. If not, call the out of bounds.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

different question but on the contact part- i had coaches saying out of bounds and the other saying block

if A1 is dribbling near the sideline toward her frountcourt. B1 gets in her way and it will clearly be a blocking foul but A1 steps out of bounds. There was little or no contact. I called a blocking foul because A1 was forced to go out of bounds. Was this the right call or can there be a blocking foul without contact?

You are confused or your post is confusing. If B1 gets in the way and A1 has time to step around or go another direction, sure sounds likely to be an offensive foul. Did B1 have LGP before the contact? Who moved into the other player?