Ball Handler Pushoff

[Matt S.]

Quality JV boys game (fast, aggressive defense on both sides)...

I call 3 PC fouls on the offensive ball-handler for extending the non-dribbling arm to create space...coach thinks I'm nuts, but the defenders are holding their arms straight up (after I'd already called a few on them for swatting at the ball and missing)

Do you think coaches understand this rule, and how often do you call a PC on the pushoff?

(Ended up T-ing the losing coach with about 45 seconds left when he said I was "out of my mind" to the whole gym...but that's a whole other topic!!!)

[chartrusepengui]

extending the non-dribbling arm to create space

is there contact?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Matt S.

Quality JV boys game (fast, aggressive defense on both sides)...

I call 3 PC fouls on the offensive ball-handler for extending the non-dribbling arm to create space...coach thinks I'm nuts, but the defenders are holding their arms straight up (after I'd already called a few on them for swatting at the ball and missing)

Do you think coaches understand this rule, and how often do you call a PC on the pushoff?

(Ended up T-ing the losing coach with about 45 seconds left when he said I was "out of my mind" to the whole gym...but that's a whole other topic!!!)

If the defender has LGP and the dribbler pushes them away, then a PC call is certainly a valid call. But like chartrusie said, there has to be contact, not just holding the arm out there...same as the "swatting at the ball and missing" isn't a foul while "swatting at the ball and hitting the dribbler's arm" would be a foul.

[just another ref]

I see this as a case that is often misunderstood/miscalled both ways. The dribblers sticks the arm out, but no contact. The crowd, in perfect unison:
"He's pushing off!" Or the defender is lunging to try a steal and is hopelessly out of position, but before he can commit the blocking foul, the dribbler reacts, changes direction, and sticks out a forearm shiver to ward off the attack.

[lpbreeze]

different question but on the contact part- i had coaches saying out of bounds and the other saying block

if A1 is dribbling near the sideline toward her frountcourt. B1 gets in her way and it will clearly be a blocking foul but A1 steps out of bounds. There was little or no contact. I called a blocking foul because A1 was forced to go out of bounds. Was this the right call or can there be a blocking foul without contact?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

different question but on the contact part- i had coaches saying out of bounds and the other saying block

if A1 is dribbling near the sideline toward her frountcourt. B1 gets in her way and it will clearly be a blocking foul but A1 steps out of bounds. There was little or no contact. I called a blocking foul because A1 was forced to go out of bounds. Was this the right call or can there be a blocking foul without contact?

Sounds like the right call to me. No contact, no block

[FrankHtown]

I had this exact same play and almost came up with a block, but then realized there was no contact. OOB on the dribbler.

[lpbreeze]

ok thanks. . There was very little contact but perhaps if their arms hit or light body contact there could be a block call. I'm thinking I might get a player who says "what am I supposed to do, crash into the defender?"

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

different question but on the contact part- i had coaches saying out of bounds and the other saying block

if A1 is dribbling near the sideline toward her frountcourt. B1 gets in her way and it will clearly be a blocking foul but A1 steps out of bounds. There was little or no contact. I called a blocking foul because A1 was forced to go out of bounds. Was this the right call or can there be a blocking foul without contact?

The very definition of a personal foul is illegal contact on an opponent. Your question about the play is a little unclear; in one part you say there was a little contact, but your final question asks if there can be a foul with no contact.

So, to answer your last question first - no, you cannot have a blocking foul with no contact.

In your play description, if you feel there was just enough contact by the defense to force A1 to step OOB, then it sounds like a foul. If you feel A1 was going to step OOB before the contact, then it's a violation on A1. Judgement call.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

different question but on the contact part- i had coaches saying out of bounds and the other saying block

if A1 is dribbling near the sideline toward her frountcourt. B1 gets in her way and it will clearly be a blocking foul but A1 steps out of bounds. There was little or no contact. I called a blocking foul because A1 was forced to go out of bounds. Was this the right call or can there be a blocking foul without contact?

You are confused or your post is confusing. If B1 gets in the way and A1 has time to step around or go another direction, sure sounds likely to be an offensive foul. Did B1 have LGP before the contact? Who moved into the other player?

[lpbreeze]

- from what I saw the defensive player stepped in the path of A1 at the last second and if A1 would have continued forward then it would have been a blocking foul. A1 didn't have time to move out of the way so she stepped out of bounds. There was a little contact but very minor and no one fell down or anything like that. I called a block because in my mind A1 had to go out of bounds or she would have had to run into B1 who got to the spot late. If there was absolutely no contact then I suppose I would have called out of bounds but the contact was very little and I called a block even though it wasn't a typical block call.

[Texas Aggie]

Called one last night. There WAS contact, and the dribbler clearly initiated both the closeness and push off. Easy call, though the partisans didn't exactly agree.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

different question but on the contact part- i had coaches saying out of bounds and the other saying block

if A1 is dribbling near the sideline toward her frountcourt. B1 gets in her way and it will clearly be a blocking foul but A1 steps out of bounds. There was little or no contact. I called a blocking foul because A1 was forced to go out of bounds. Was this the right call or can there be a blocking foul without contact?

Originally Posted by just another ref

Sounds like the right call to me. No contact, no block

Isn't there something in the rulebook something along the lines of "if a defender is within 3ft of the boundary line...."?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Isn't there something in the rulebook something along the lines of "if a defender is within 3ft of the boundary line...."?

Don't think so.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Isn't there something in the rulebook something along the lines of "if a defender is within 3ft of the boundary line...."?

Hey BNR, how goes it . I think this is what you are looking for. So far as I can tell, it has remained unchanged for umpteen years. (Apologies to Juulie!!)

RULE 4 SECTION 7 BLOCKING, CHARGING
ART. 1 . . . Blocking is illegal personal contact which impedes the progress of an opponent with or without the ball.
ART. 2 . . .
c. There must be reasonable space between two defensive players or a defensive player and a boundary line to allow the dribbler to continue in his/her path. If there is less than 3 feet of space, the dribbler has the greater responsibility for the contact.