Defender hits dribbler's hand; ball goes OOB; Whatcha got?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

However - was the ball last touched by A? :-)

9-3-1...A player shall not cause the ball to go out of bounds.

[blindzebra]

There is no way to hit the hand and not hit the ball, OOB off of B1...that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[MN BB Ref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

9-3-1...A player shall not cause the ball to go out of bounds.

However, if we are to strictly adhere to that logic, what would we have when A1 is tied up in the corner and throws the ball at B1's legs and it goes oob off of B1? That would seem to be another case where A1 caused the ball to go oob but we would never give the ball to B in this case.

For the record, on the original situation I'm giving the ball back to A as I consider that to be the "right" call.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by MN BB Ref

However, if we are to strictly adhere to that logic, what would we have when A1 is tied up in the corner and throws the ball at B1's legs and it goes oob off of B1? That would seem to be another case where A1 caused the ball to go oob but we would never give the ball to B in this case.

I'm just giving information, actually, and am more interested in other responses than anything else. That said, the rebounding off of B1's leg is what caused the ball to go OOB, not A1's throwing of the ball.

Just like in the original post if B1 hits A1's hand while in contact with the ball causing the ball to go off A1's foot OOB, then it's B's ball...

[Splute]

Originally Posted by MN BB Ref

However, if we are to strictly adhere to that logic, what would we have when A1 is tied up in the corner and throws the ball at B1's legs and it goes oob off of B1? That would seem to be another case where A1 caused the ball to go oob but we would never give the ball to B in this case.

For the record, on the original situation I'm giving the ball back to A as I consider that to be the "right" call.

In your stated case, IMO, B1 caused the ball to go out of bounds (off his/her legs). Again you are assuming A1 "intentionally" threw the ball at the legs of B1 rather than attempting a pass that "happened" to hit B1 in the legs. I believe the rules reference hitting someone in the face intentionally, but the legs are fair game...

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Splute

but the legs are fair game...

Especially on dates.

I can't wait for Juulie's comment.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Especially on dates.

I can't wait for Juulie's comment.

I'm glad you're too old and ugly to be of interest to my daughter!

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I'm glad you're too old and ugly to be of interest to my daughter! a living human

I've seen his picture.

[chartrusepengui]

the hand bone's connected to the wrist bone,
the wrist bone's connected to the arm bone,
the arm bone's connected to the elbow bone,
the elbow bone's connected to the upper arm bone,
the upper arm bone's connected to the shoulder bone, ........ etc.

ball off A OOB giver to B

[Splute]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

the hand bone's connected to the wrist bone,
the wrist bone's connected to the arm bone,
the arm bone's connected to the elbow bone,
the elbow bone's connected to the upper arm bone,
the upper arm bone's connected to the shoulder bone, ........ etc.

ball off A OOB giver to B

Let me see if I understand you. You are going to award B1 the ball for slapping A1s hand, resulting in the ball going OOBs? So if B1 had only hit the ball and not the hand, then its out on B1? Therefore you do not agree that the "hand" on the ball, is the same as the ball? That being said, you must call a foul each time the player, while shooting, gets their "hand" hit while in contact with the ball... correct?

[Adam]

Personally, I can't imagine seeing this play so well and so clearly that I could tell B1's hand didn't touch the ball.

By rule, it's B's ball. I'm just not good enough to make that call.

[Splute]

Snaqs,
What rule did I miss that makes it B's ball? Still refering to the original Op of B1 hitting A1s hand while in contact with the ball, the ball going OOB, touching nothing else but the floor. Thanks

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by Splute

Let me see if I understand you. You are going to award B1 the ball for slapping A1s hand, resulting in the ball going OOBs? So if B1 had only hit the ball and not the hand, then its out on B1? Therefore you do not agree that the "hand" on the ball, is the same as the ball? That being said, you must call a foul each time the player, while shooting, gets their "hand" hit while in contact with the ball... correct?

What you are seeing is the literal wording of the rules vs the real world.

The natural way to read 10-6-2 is to take it as the hand is part of the ball, unfortunately it isn't literally written that way...so officials are in a dilema...call it literally or call it fair.

Which is why you can read some of the responses like I don't see well enough to see only hand on hand, or it's impossible for B1 to just hit the hand and no ball.

So book ref it and give the ball to B or real world it and give it back to A.

[inigo montoya]

4-24
Art. 2... It is legal use of hands to reach to block or slap the ball controlled by a dribbler or a player throwing for goal or a player holding it and accidentally hitting the hand of the opponent when it is in contact with the ball.

10-6
Art. 2... A player shall not contact an opponent with his/her hand unless such contact is only with the opponent's hand while it is on the ball and is incidental to any attempt to play the ball.

If B1's contact with A1's hand (while it is in contact with the ball) is accidental and during a legit shot to play the ball then by rule it is out of bounds on A.

7-2-1 ... The ball is caused to go out of bounds by the last player in bounds to touch it or be touched by it...

However, if B1 contacts A1's hand intentionally to cause the ball to go out of bounds then you have a personal foul, do you not?

[Splute]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

What you are seeing is the literal wording of the rules vs the real world.

The natural way to read 10-6-2 is to take it as the hand is part of the ball, unfortunately it isn't literally written that way...so officials are in a dilema...call it literally or call it fair.

Which is why you can read some of the responses like I don't see well enough to see only hand on hand, or it's impossible for B1 to just hit the hand and no ball.

So book ref it and give the ball to B or real world it and give it back to A.

Interesting, my thought process has always been that the contact by B1 caused the ball to go OOB, as if he hit ONLY the ball. Thus I would give it back to A1. Just as I deem contact by B1 on the hand of shooter A1 a legal play and play continues from resulting actions. Any chance there is a Sit on this particular instance?? I will look thru the books tonight. Thanks for the interps.