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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 04, 2007, 12:43pm
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Reversing my own call

Last night I was working boys' JV and the following situation happened: Tight game, 4th quarter, A1 brings the ball just over the timeline and B1 gets tight on him. A1 turns his back to B1 and pushes his dribble back towards the timeline. I clearly see it hit the imaginary "line" (large logo in center breaks the line up) and immediately whistle and signal over-and-back. Trouble is, as I'm signalling, the A bench hollers something and in my mind I groan "oh no". I saw the wrong line. It was one of the volleyball lines just inside A's frontcourt. I say "my bad!" (probably not an approved mechanic) "inadvertent whistle, still White ball".

My partner comes over to me with a quizzical look and I just tell her I made a mistake on which line it was, we're staying here. I don't think she was totally convinced I could do that. I wasn't totally convinced I could do that either but, at the moment, it was the best and fairest way I could think of. Team B coach never said a word which helped immensely. Any thoughts or rule citations on this?
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Old Tue Dec 04, 2007, 12:57pm
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You misinterpret a line being the division line. IW move on no problem.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 04, 2007, 12:57pm
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There was no violation on Team A, therefore, IW would be the correct call imo.
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Old Tue Dec 04, 2007, 12:57pm
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You did the right thing, getting the call right is very important, and when it is because of an error such as mistaking the wrong line, you should fix it.
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Old Tue Dec 04, 2007, 01:02pm
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Thank you for the feedback, I'm sure a judgment call would be quite a different animal in trying to reverse.
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Old Tue Dec 04, 2007, 01:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo21
I clearly see it hit the imaginary "line" (large logo in center breaks the line up) and immediately whistle and signal over-and-back.
It might not be a bad idea to mention to whomever was the site administrator of that game that he has an illegal court. The rules specify that there must be at least a shadow line laid out out on the court over the logo.

Rules references are 1-3NOTE and case book play 1.3.2

Imaginary lines aren't allowed.
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Old Tue Dec 04, 2007, 01:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo21
My partner comes over to me with a quizzical look and I just tell her I made a mistake on which line it was, we're staying here. I don't think she was totally convinced I could do that. I wasn't totally convinced I could do that either but, at the moment, it was the best and fairest way I could think of. Team B coach never said a word which helped immensely. Any thoughts or rule citations on this?
Just last week I did a similar thing to my partner. I was Lead transitioning to Trail after a made basket. The ball was knocked loose and arms flailed, bodies collided and the ball bounced around, all in about a 8'X8' square in the corner, finally being knocked OOB. I come in with a strong whistle and a foul signal. Then I stood there for what seemed 10 seconds, and said "White Ball". I immediately looked at my partner and said, I didn't have foul after all.

I guess for both Rizzo and I, it was better than blowing a whistle when nothing at all happened. Yeah, I've done that.
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Old Tue Dec 04, 2007, 02:22pm
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If I may, another situation in this game had to do with the timeline but not reversing a call.

A1 dribbles the ball up to midcourt and stops on the timeline with one foot straddling the line and one foot still in the backcourt. He PASSES to A2 whom I judged to receive the pass pretty much in the same position, foot on the timeline and one foot in backcourt. I realize if he had jumped from the frontcourt, received the pass then landed in that position it would have been over-and-back. However, in the situation described, I had no-call. The crowd of team B certainly had a call but I didn't. I believe (if my judgment was correct about the pass receiver) I had the right call. Any comments?

If I was correct, I also don't believe that the call changes if the position of the backcourt foot (for A1 or A2) was any different (backcourt or frontcourt). I'm open to correction though.

Last edited by Rizzo21; Tue Dec 04, 2007 at 02:25pm.
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Old Tue Dec 04, 2007, 02:27pm
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If that's what your judgement was, then it was the right call. Ignore the crowd
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Old Tue Dec 04, 2007, 02:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo21
If I may, another situation in this game had to do with the timeline but not reversing a call.

A1 dribbles the ball up to midcourt and stops on the timeline with one foot straddling the line and one foot still in the backcourt. He PASSES to A2 whom I judged to receive the pass pretty much in the same position, foot on the timeline and one foot in backcourt. I realize if he had jumped from the frontcourt, received the pass then landed in that position it would have been over-and-back. However, in the situation described, I had no-call. The crowd of team B certainly had a call but I didn't. I believe (if my judgment was correct about the pass receiver) I had the right call. Any comments?

If I was correct, I also don't believe that the call changes if the position of the backcourt foot (for A1 or A2) was any different (backcourt or frontcourt). I'm open to correction though.
A1 has backcourt status, and A2 has backcourt status, so no violation.

Except, I've never really thought about this before, but if the pass was a bounce-pass that bounced completely in the frontcourt, then the ball would have frontcourt status and A2 catching the ball would be a violation.

At least, I think.
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Old Tue Dec 04, 2007, 02:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PYRef
If that's what your judgement was, then it was the right call. Ignore the crowd
Exactly. Touching the division line puts the player in backcourt. Passing to another player touching the division line is really the same situation as a player deep in backcourt passing to a teammate deep in backcourt. Don't let the touching of the division line cloud the issue.
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Old Tue Dec 04, 2007, 03:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo21
If I may, another situation in this game had to do with the timeline but not reversing a call.

A1 dribbles the ball up to midcourt and stops on the timeline with one foot straddling the line and one foot still in the backcourt. He PASSES to A2 whom I judged to receive the pass pretty much in the same position, foot on the timeline and one foot in backcourt. I realize if he had jumped from the frontcourt, received the pass then landed in that position it would have been over-and-back. However, in the situation described, I had no-call. The crowd of team B certainly had a call but I didn't. I believe (if my judgment was correct about the pass receiver) I had the right call. Any comments?

If I was correct, I also don't believe that the call changes if the position of the backcourt foot (for A1 or A2) was any different (backcourt or frontcourt). I'm open to correction though.
A pass from one player with one or both feet in backcourt to another player with one or both feet in backcourt. Seems like a pretty simple no-call to me.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 04, 2007, 03:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo21
Thank you for the feedback, I'm sure a judgment call would be quite a different animal in trying to reverse.

Actually this is not that uncommon, either. Officials often anticipate a crash and start to blow the whistle early, then the contact is avoided or is not nearly as severe as was expected. You then have the choice of IW or hang a foul on a player that may not have been justified. The bottom line is have a patient whistle.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 04, 2007, 04:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
It might not be a bad idea to mention to whomever was the site administrator of that game that he has an illegal court. The rules specify that there must be at least a shadow line laid out out on the court over the logo.

Rules references are 1-3NOTE and case book play 1.3.2

Imaginary lines aren't allowed.
Whats the Penalty in NFHS since there is nothing in rule 10-1? In NCAA it should be a T if the home team is playing. (Though a local Juco has an illegal center logo, but has never been whacked for it either.)
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Old Tue Dec 04, 2007, 05:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stat-Man
Whats the Penalty in NFHS since there is nothing in rule 10-1? In NCAA it should be a T if the home team is playing. (Though a local Juco has an illegal center logo, but has never been whacked for it either.)
I have no idea what the penalty is, or even if there is one. They had an editorial change back around the start of this century iirc that simply said that there should be a visible shadow line all of the way across the court, including through a center logo. I can't remember if the FED actually stated what we were supposed to do with courts that don't have the lines though. Maybe somebody else will remember.

This is a good one to go blind on imo, except for maybe mentioning to the home AD that he should get a line put down.
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