Unsportsmanlike?

[Rev.Ref63]

Team A is playing a box-n-one defense on team B. Player A is closely guarding player B even when team A is on offense. He is guarding him very closely, facing him and staring right in his face. Player B had no room to even take a step forward. On one free throw, player B went to the opposite end and player A continued to shadow him and get in his face. Needless to say, player B was quite frustrated and was quite ineffective. Is this unsportsmanlike?

BTW, I was a spectator at this game.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Rev.Ref63

Team A is playing a box-n-one defense on team B. Player A is closely guarding player B even when team A is on offense. He is guarding him very closely, facing him and staring right in his face. Player B had no room to even take a step forward. On one free throw, player B went to the opposite end and player A continued to shadow him and get in his face. Needless to say, player B was quite frustrated and was quite ineffective. Is this unsportsmanlike?

BTW, I was a spectator at this game.

If it's total body defense, and he maintains LGP and contact is all incidental, I think it's probably legal. Gotta watch for "face guarding", though. Ask how that's defined in your area. But otherwise, just close, suffocating guarding isn't unsportsmanlike, I don't think. Sounds like Team A figures they've got a better chance in the game if it's 4 on 4 rather than letting B1 be part of the play. Good plan if they can avoid fouls.

[JRutledge]

Unless they did not say anything derogatory to each other, I am really not sure what you described could be considered illegal. There is nothing wrong with guarding someone. A player being frustrated by this should not be a factor if everything else is legal. I do not see guarding someone close as one of the many classifications of something unsportsmanlike.

Peace

[Rev.Ref63]

I agree that close guarding isn't illegal; however, I was leaning more toward a "taunting" unsporting foul. A1 was literally "in the face" of B1; virtually nose-to-nose. The fact that he maintained this posture even when his team was on offense seemed unsporting to me.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rev.Ref63

I agree that close guarding isn't illegal; however, I was leaning more toward a "taunting" unsporting foul. A1 was literally "in the face" of B1; virtually nose-to-nose. The fact that he maintained this posture even when his team was on offense seemed unsporting to me.

Do not go looking for stuff that is not there. There is nothing illegal about just standing near someone. If a player does not want someone near him, then move and use a screen to get that player away from you. Just because you do not like something does not make it illegal. You will not find a single interpretation that says there is something that this is illegal.

Peace

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Rev.Ref63

Team A is playing a box-n-one defense on team B. Player A is closely guarding player B even when team A is on offense. He is guarding him very closely, facing him and staring right in his face. Player B had no room to even take a step forward. On one free throw, player B went to the opposite end and player A continued to shadow him and get in his face. Needless to say, player B was quite frustrated and was quite ineffective. Is this unsportsmanlike?

BTW, I was a spectator at this game.

First: When Team B is in control of the ball, the guarding rules apply to players on Team A.

Second: No matter which team is in control of the ball or if neither team has control of the ball, then the screening rules apply to both Team A and Team B.

Therefore, as long as A1 was not committing any of the technical fouls that apply to taunting and unsportsmanlike conduct, then what A1 was doing against B1 was legal as long as the officials applied the guarding and screening rules correctly.

I am sure that B1 was getting frustrated if Team A's defense was doing its job against him.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark Padgett]

Unless he was "in his face" following a play in which he scored on the other player, or something similar, there's no taunting just for standing close and staring. Plus, you indicated there was never any contact, just proximity. This is a no-call all the way.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Rev.Ref63

I agree that close guarding isn't illegal; however, I was leaning more toward a "taunting" unsporting foul. A1 was literally "in the face" of B1; virtually nose-to-nose. The fact that he maintained this posture even when his team was on offense seemed unsporting to me.

It's screening or guarding whether offense or defense, and perfectly legal, unless there was anything in the neighborhood or taunting or non-basketball stuff such as facial expressions or vocabulary that might be non-basketball.

I'd watch closely for goading and that kind of thing. Also, if that close play is maintained during a dead ball, I'd be on top of it, warning, separating, and maybe whacking. If A1 has a reputation for being a hothead, and it appears as though B1 is trying to just frustrate A into fouling or worse, you could call contact pretty closely as a way to back B up a little. But if A is just a really good player that B is trying to get out of the game, I think it's completely legal and cant be penalized in any way.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

If A1 has a reputation for being a hothead, and it appears as though B1 is trying to just frustrate A into fouling or worse, you could call contact pretty closely as a way to back B up a little.

I'm sure this isn't what you mean, but I'd hate to think you would penalize B1 because of A1's inability to control his temper...

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

If A1 has a reputation for being a hothead, and it appears as though B1 is trying to just frustrate A into fouling or worse ...

I used this exact tactic in my son's middle school game I was coaching several years ago. The subject was a big thug with a hot head and everyone knew it. I even went so far as to have a player shadow him when he went to the water fountain. He got extremely frustrated by the third quarter and fouled out. Totally neutralized his size and skill. His coach told me after the game that almost every team they played did the same thing. He ended up playing soccer by the time he got to high school.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I'm sure this isn't what you mean, but I'd hate to think you would penalize B1 because of A1's inability to control his temper...

What I meant was that if the guarding player (B or A??) is just trying to goad the hot head into losing his temper, rather than really trying to play basketball, I think it's borderline. Keep a close eye on it.

Originally Posted by Rev.Ref63

I agree that close guarding isn't illegal; however, I was leaning more toward a "taunting" unsporting foul. A1 was literally "in the face" of B1; virtually nose-to-nose. The fact that he maintained this posture even when his team was on offense seemed unsporting to me.

Why didn't B1 move, turn his back, spin off, etc? It takes two to tango. Honestly, If I were B1's coach I would alert the officials that we will try to draw a bocking call because A1 is not giving the proper time and distance. Second, if I were B1, and a defender was nose to nose with me, I would run him over or make my V-cut head first....or reach for a pass arms head high...

Get my drift? It sounds like B1 was a weenie.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by MeRef

Why didn't B1 move, turn his back, spin off, etc? It takes two to tango. Honestly, If I were B1's coach I would alert the officials that we will try to draw a bocking call because A1 is not giving the proper time and distance. Second, if I were B1, and a defender was nose to nose with me, I would run him over or make my V-cut head first....or reach for a pass arms head high...

I'll agree with you about B1 trying a little harder to get free. Maybe they decided that pulling A1 out of the game was a good idea and losing B1 seemed like a small price to pay. I'd be interested to hear how the game turned out. RevRef63?

Originally Posted by MeRef

It sounds like B1 was a weenie.

I think I"ll give this one a pass.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

I used this exact tactic in my son's middle school game I was coaching several years ago. The subject was a big thug with a hot head and everyone knew it. I even went so far as to have a player shadow him when he went to the water fountain. He got extremely frustrated by the third quarter and fouled out. Totally neutralized his size and skill. His coach told me after the game that almost every team they played did the same thing. He ended up playing soccer by the time he got to high school.

Seems to me this tactic could easily backfire if you have a decent enough coach; especially after one or two times.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by MeRef

Second, if I were B1, and a defender was nose to nose with me, I would run him over or make my V-cut head first....or reach for a pass arms head high...

Get my drift?

Yup, got your drift. Might work too if you got a couple of officials who don't know whatinthehell they are doing. Of course, if you do happen to get refs that know the rules, you'd be playing right into team A's plans with B1 picking up some stoopid fouls.

Good luck with that philosophy.