Head Coache's Rule

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Sounds like classic disconcertion to me.

Gotta love an "adult" who decides he needs to disconcert a 17 year-old kid....not surprising though, I did a 6th grade tournament earlier this year in a TINY gym where the benches are actually on one end of the floor directly under one basket. There was one coach who actually started yelling "MAKE HIM GO LEFT, HE HAS NO LEFT, NO LEFT! YOU'RE IN HIS HEAD" probably 10 feet away from this poor sixth grader who obviously didn't have a left b/c he got the ball stolen I don't know how many times....I didn't have to do anything but give him "the look", he understood...it never ceases to amaze me though the depths to which some coaches will stoop. That's why I'm glad I will have been officiating for so long before I ever attempt to coach my own son, I've seen how bad it looks from the other side..

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I've used the "let's be sure everybody knows what to do before the shooter gets the ball" line while administering the FT (this was with players, not with coaches).

And, I T'd a coach last night for being out of the box, and I also T'd one two years ago (iirc). (In both cases it was a combination of actions and location that did the trick -- the action in the box, or just being out of the box would have been handled differently).

You whacked somebody? Are you the Bob Jenkins I know?

I haven't yet, but that's mainly because I don't have a game for another 2 weeks. Self-imposed extended break between seasons, for me.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

There used to be a very annoying Varsity assistant coach in my league. Every time an opposing player would shoot a freethrow, he would go all the way down to the end of his bench (so he would be within peripheral sight of the FT shooter) and remind his players of everything they would possibly need to know at the the top of his lungs while waving his arms around pointing out different random things. "TOM, BOX OUT, BIG STEP, BOX OUT!! MIKE, YOU GOT SHOOTER!! FRED, WATCH YOUR FEET, DON'T CROSS THE LINE!!! BOX OUT BOX OUT BOX OUT!!!" If the player took 3 seconds to shoot it, he would yell and wave his arms for 3 seconds. If the shooter took 9 seconds to shoot, he would yell and wave for 9 seconds.

During a game a few years ago, the FT shooter actually bounced the ball back to the official and asked (loudly) "can you please tell him to shut the hell up?!?"

How would you guys handle this situation? warn the coach? T the coach? T the shooter? FT violation on the shooter? I just remember laughing and spilling nacho cheese on my scouting pad.

I would hold my delayed violation signal, and if the free throw is missed I would award another free throw. The rule says NO opponent of the free thrower shall disconcert the shooter.

[flaref0812]

If I'm the R on a game, I'll give the coach(es) the benefit of the entire sideline from 28' to baseline with a provisio that the coach coach his/her player(s) and not use this area to instruct us how to officiate the game or be abusive. If he/she breaks my "rule" then he/she is relegated to either the 14' of coaching box (after the first and only warning) or T (if warranted). I know it's against both national and state policy.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

I would hold my delayed violation signal, and if the free throw is missed I would award another free throw. The rule says NO opponent of the free thrower shall disconcert the shooter.

Not sure if I agree with that interpretation...are you holding the coach to the other free throw lane restrictions as well? They are already allowed below free throw line extended (depending on the size of the box), how do you square allowing that "infraction" and penalizing another? I believe "opponent" in this case is referring to another player...To me this would fall more under an unsporting act, but that is JHMO....

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Not sure if I agree with that interpretation...are you holding the coach to the other free throw lane restrictions as well? They are already allowed below free throw line extended (depending on the size of the box), how do you square allowing that "infraction" and penalizing another? I believe "opponent" in this case is referring to another player...To me this would fall more under an unsporting act, but that is JHMO....

If I'm not letting the bench players disconcert, then I'm letting the coach either. I think I rather get my point across with the violation and additional free throw, rather then giving an unsporting technical. I'm definitely not applying a "coaches box" rule against him when we know the coaching box can and often does fall below the free throw line extended.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Not sure if I agree with that interpretation...are you holding the coach to the other free throw lane restrictions as well? They are already allowed below free throw line extended (depending on the size of the box), how do you square allowing that "infraction" and penalizing another? I believe "opponent" in this case is referring to another player...To me this would fall more under an unsporting act, but that is JHMO....

A coach / the bench can "disconcert." Whether that happend in the OP or not, I don't know. ANd, it can often, and should often, be addressed before it gets to the point of having the violation.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

A coach / the bench can "disconcert." Whether that happend in the OP or not, I don't know. ANd, it can often, and should often, be addressed before it gets to the point of having the violation.

Can you please provide a reference for that? I just have a hard time applying a rule like that to a coach...agree with you that there are other ways to deal with it, and it would never get to that point, but as a fundamental premise, where else do you apply an "in game" rule to a coach? Maybe there are some, but I can't think of any off hand...

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

If I'm not letting the bench players disconcert, then I'm letting the coach either. I think I rather get my point across with the violation and additional free throw, rather then giving an unsporting technical. I'm definitely not applying a "coaches box" rule against him when we know the coaching box can and often does fall below the free throw line extended.

Agree with you that it may be the best way to deal with it, but I don't see a rule allowing us to make this call..I understand that you are applying the disconcertion rule to the coach, but as I mentioned in my last post, where else do we apply "in game" rules to coaches? Personally and without any other rule evidence to the contrary, I would warn a coach once and if it continued it would be a tech from there...been wrong before though!

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Can you please provide a reference for that? I just have a hard time applying a rule like that to a coach...agree with you that there are other ways to deal with it, and it would never get to that point, but as a fundamental premise, where else do you apply an "in game" rule to a coach? Maybe there are some, but I can't think of any off hand...

9.3.c. No opponent shall disconcert the free thrower. I'm defining opponent as all opponents, since it doesn't specifically say opponents on the playing court.

There should be "Definitions" section in the rule book.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

9.3.c. No opponent shall disconcert the free thrower. I'm defining opponent as all opponents, since it doesn't specifically say opponents on the playing court.

There should be "Definitions" section in the rule book.

When I say all, I'm referring to bench personnel as well.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Can you please provide a reference for that?

The NFHS issued a POE in the 2001-02 rulebook clarifying that disconcertion applies to all opponents, including the opponent's bench and everyone on the bench. That POE also clarified that if the disconcertion was persistent or deemed unsporting, an official could penalize the act not only as a delayed FT violation but with a technical foul in addition also.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The NFHS issued a POE in the 2001-02 rulebook clarifying that disconcertion applies to all opponents, including the opponent's bench and everyone on the bench. That POE also clarified that if the disconcertion was persistent or deemed unsporting, an official could penalize the act not only as a delayed FT violation but with a technical foul in addition also.

Interesting, thanks...

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by flaref0812

If I'm the R on a game, I'll give the coach(es) the benefit of the entire sideline from 28' to baseline with a provisio that the coach coach his/her player(s) and not use this area to instruct us how to officiate the game or be abusive. If he/she breaks my "rule" then he/she is relegated to either the 14' of coaching box (after the first and only warning) or T (if warranted). I know it's against both national and state policy.

Are there other rules that you purposely set aside when you are the R on a game? Do you tell the captains that they may pivot following a jumpstop (from 1 to 2) as long as they don't complain to the officials?
Do you let inbounders have seven seconds to release the throw-in pass as long as they don't complain to the officials?

Why not just expand the regulations for everyone? Give people a few extra steps on and off the court and a few extra seconds too.

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The NFHS issued a POE in the 2001-02 rulebook clarifying that disconcertion applies to all opponents, including the opponent's bench and everyone on the bench. That POE also clarified that if the disconcertion was persistent or deemed unsporting, an official could penalize the act not only as a delayed FT violation but with a technical foul in addition also.

Interesting you say that. Last year I had a notoriously mis-behaved coach (he was fired at end of season) earn a T for that. After arguing a foul call, he was squatting in front of his seat (1st Half so FTs by opponent are in front of him) while we were administering the FTs. I was T (2-person), so I had him in my line of sight. He waited until the shooter started his shooting motion and then he slapped the floor real hard and yelled BOX OUT. I wacked him for unsporting behavior. When he asked me what the T was for, I said "unsporting behavior". He asked "what for?". I told him to ask his AD (who is a licensed basketball official). The AD told me a couple of weeks later that that was a great call.

I had him 6 times in two seasons and he had earned 5 Ts in that time, but the other 4 Ts were always by my partner.