Flopping

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Since you admitted you saw the flop, this is obviously lying to the coach. If the coach saw the same thing, he also knows you're lying. If I was your partner, you would've lost your credibility in my eyes.

Coaches think we lie to them even when we are not lying to them. At some point, who gives a rat's azz if a coach thinks were are lying. I am not talking about this situation, but I am not going to admit something to a coach because my partner obviously screwed up. I do not care about my credibility about a coach on the basis of one call. I am starting to channel Dan's mind or spirit or something, but why are we so concerned with what a coach thinks and in a year they will not even be at that job anymore?

Peace

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am starting to channel Dan's mind or spirit or something,

Jeff channelling Dan?? That's a picture I'm gonna have to take to counselling to get rid of....

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Coaches think we lie to them even when we are not lying to them. At some point, who gives a rat's azz if a coach thinks were are lying.

Jeff, I'm not talking about simply what a coach thinks. I'm also not talking about going over to the coach and telling them my partner screwed up. I'm talking about the credibility of an official that outright lies about their call. I'm talking about this situation. If one of my partners lies about a call, our whole crew has been affected. If I know he made up this call, how do I know he doesn't make up other calls? Should I start watching his area? How do I know he got the proper shooter for the FT, and not just picked out any player because he wasn't watching? Damn! I just missed a call because I'm too busy thinking about these things. The overall perfomance of the crew, and the trust level between crew members has come down a couple of notches.

In almost 20 years of officiating, I've only called this T twice, and one of those was in wreck league. Flopping doesn't happen often, but there are other alternatives to handling this situation. There's quietly reminding the player they're not eligible for Oscar consideration. There's mentioning the play to the coach. There's calling a block if the offensive player falls over the flopper. I'm not sure lying about a call, or making up a call, should be one of the alternatives.

[Adam]

I've generally found that, at higher levels (JV and up), coaches know what's going on. If you have a no call and their defender is lying on the floor, he (or she) knows what happened. I've had more than one coach yell at their player here, and when I've been questioned I just say he fell backwards before any contact was made. Works (almost) every time.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Jeff, I'm not talking about simply what a coach thinks. I'm also not talking about going over to the coach and telling them my partner screwed up. I'm talking about the credibility of an official that outright lies about their call. I'm talking about this situation. If one of my partners lies about a call, our whole crew has been affected. If I know he made up this call, how do I know he doesn't make up other calls? Should I start watching his area? How do I know he got the proper shooter for the FT, and not just picked out any player because he wasn't watching? Damn! I just missed a call because I'm too busy thinking about these things. The overall perfomance of the crew, and the trust level between crew members has come down a couple of notches.

In almost 20 years of officiating, I've only called this T twice, and one of those was in wreck league. Flopping doesn't happen often, but there are other alternatives to handling this situation. There's quietly reminding the player they're not eligible for Oscar consideration. There's mentioning the play to the coach. There's calling a block if the offensive player falls over the flopper. I'm not sure lying about a call, or making up a call, should be one of the alternatives.

Hey M&M I got a question for you. Your partner misses an obvious foul/travel/double dribble etc. You see it and you don't blow the whistle. The Coach says "you saw that you were looking right at it I know you saw it. Do you throw your partner under the bus. Or do you say I was off ball, my partner had a better look etc., etc. etc. I would like to think you wouldn't throw your partner under the bus.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

Hey M&M I got a question for you. Your partner misses an obvious foul/travel/double dribble etc. You see it and you don't blow the whistle. The Coach says "you saw that you were looking right at it I know you saw it. Do you throw your partner under the bus. Or do you say I was off ball, my partner had a better look etc., etc. etc. I would like to think you wouldn't throw your partner under the bus.

The best response is....wait for it....

....thank you.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

Hey M&M I got a question for you. Your partner misses an obvious foul/travel/double dribble etc. You see it and you don't blow the whistle. The Coach says "you saw that you were looking right at it I know you saw it. Do you throw your partner under the bus. Or do you say I was off ball, my partner had a better look etc., etc. etc. I would like to think you wouldn't throw your partner under the bus.

If it was outside my area, of course my partner probably had the better look.

I still have a question for you: what is your justification for making up a call (calling a block with no contact), and then lying to the coach about the call ("I saw it different")?

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

If it was outside my area, of course my partner probably had the better look.

You lied. Remember you have definite knowledge your partner missed it. (Incidentally, I'd do the same.) But you lied to the Coach. Now the Coach says "you'er a liar I know you saw it." Are you launching him? How do you justify launching him when he calls you on it? (I'm launching him)

I still have a question for you: what is your justification for making up a call (calling a block with no contact), and then lying to the coach about the call ("I saw it different")?

If I'm not mistaken I think Mark Twain said something like this. There's lies and their's damned lies. It was just a lie.

Have a good day.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

If I'm not mistaken I think Mark Twain said something like this. There's lies and their's damned lies. It was just a lie.

Have a good day.

98% of us think you're making that up.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

98% of us think you're making that up.

Touche'

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

You lied. Remember you have definite knowledge your partner missed it. (Incidentally, I'd do the same.) But you lied to the Coach. Now the Coach says "you'er a liar I know you saw it." Are you launching him? How do you justify launching him when he calls you on it? (I'm launching him)

How is it a lie to tell the coach your partner had a better look at it? I know what I saw, but I don't know what my partner saw, especially if it's in their area.

You also haven't answered my questions yet.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

How is it a lie to tell the coach your partner had a better look at it? I know what I saw, but I don't know what my partner saw, especially if it's in their area.

It's a lie because your partner blew it and you know it. Better look, not my area no different then me saying maybe I missed it etc.

You also haven't answered my questions yet.

I'll answer it like this. I don't lie to my friends (partners) if you do it's a damned lie. Coaches aren't my friends so it's a lie.

If you tell me in 20 years of reffing you never ever, ever, ever lied to a Coach that's a damned lie.

[Adam]

"Coach, my partner had a better look at that than I did, you'll have to ask her."
No lie, and no one looks up at the undercarriage of a bus. Integrity and loyalty.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

"Coach, my partner had a better look at that than I did, you'll have to ask her."

Still sipping diet pop, I see.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Still sipping diet pop, I see.

Hey, I'm trying to be empathetic. You're not helping me with your ridicule.

Do I sound irritable?