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Old Fri Sep 03, 2004, 09:34pm
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Question

I have been studying my rulebook. I was looking at the points of interest. 4-B states that a technical foul should be given for flopping or making it appear that a player has been fouled. I don't remember hearing of this being enforced. How much of a "flop" do you allow before issuing a T?
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Old Fri Sep 03, 2004, 09:42pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by gostars
I have been studying my rulebook. I was looking at the points of interest. 4-B states that a technical foul should be given for flopping or making it appear that a player has been fouled. I don't remember hearing of this being enforced. How much of a "flop" do you allow before issuing a T?
I've never called a T, but I've called it a block plenty of times. In the lane area it is very dangerous, for all the players including the floppee.

For me it depends on how much it effects the offensive player. If they need to contort to avoid the flopper, I've been known to call it a block.

Usually, I tell them to stop flopping, or if there is contact and they try for the Academy Award, I'll tell them to stop trying to sell it.
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Old Fri Sep 03, 2004, 09:44pm
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Firstly, what I am about to say relates to my own experience, if in your area they want you to either call it or let it go, do what those who give you the games want.


I have never had to give out a technical for this. If the I saw absolutely no contact, and the kid takes a dive, usually I'll let it go. I'm not stopping the play, and putting the offensive team at a disadvantage because of this. If the kid complains asking me where the call was (with some form of an attitude) we have a T (not for the dive, but the comments after it). If he doesn't or does so in a nice manner, at the next dead ball, I will explain to him, that by rule he can't take a dive, and that if he tries it again, I will T him up for it.

After a warning, I tend not to see it anymore.

Again, that is just my way of doing things, I know by rule that I am not handling the situation correctly, but I believe that from a game management perspective, this is a better way of dealing with it. Because if I T the kid up, one on the coach will probably follow etc...
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Old Fri Sep 03, 2004, 09:50pm
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I agree with ref18. I warning would probably be in order and then a T.
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Old Sat Sep 04, 2004, 11:48am
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Depending on the situation, either a warning or a block. It's kinda funny then when a D-coach comments that there was zero contact, why the block? He'll make quick eye contact with his player and let him know not to try it again.
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Old Mon Sep 06, 2004, 09:58pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ref18


I'm not stopping the play, and putting the offensive team at a disadvantage because of this. If the kid complains asking me where the call was (with some form of an attitude) we have a T (not for the dive, but the comments after it
I don't see where the offensive team is disadvantaged.

In NCAA rules, the team would shot 2 free throws.

Seems like an adavantage for them don't you think.

I agree hardly ever called. I would only call it if the flop was accompanied by a large "oooomph etc". I bet ya a T would stop that nonsense right away.
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Old Wed Sep 08, 2004, 08:37pm
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Just got my new NFHS rule book, and I see that "flopping" is now a new POE- Point of Emphasis- this year. Apparently the FED thinks that it's become a problem. The POE is as follows, and is labelled as an "Specific Unsporting Act":

"Flopping"- The defensive player or screener acting as though he or she has been charged by an opponent, when in fact he or she has not been, definitely has an impact on the game. It is detrimental to the best interests of basketball. The "actor" wants to create the false impression that he or she has been fouled in the charging/guarding situation, or while he or she is screening when in either case there is no contact or incidental contact. The "actor" fall to the court as if he or she has been knocked down by the force of the contact. Those actions are designed to have a foul charged to the opponent- a foul not deserved. The "flop" also incites spectators. The rules are in place to deal with such activity and must be enforced. A technical foul is charged to the "actor" in all case. Coaches can have a positive impact by appropriately dealing with players who fake being fouled. It is not a part of the game. Officials must penalize the act".

My advice? Handle with care!
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Old Wed Sep 08, 2004, 09:08pm
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Very good advice, now I'm unsure of what I am going to do.

I think I will bring this up at the next association meeting, just to figure out how they want things handled in my area.
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Old Wed Sep 08, 2004, 09:32pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ref18

I think I will bring this up at the next association meeting, just to figure out how they want things handled in my area.
That's always your best option- if you can get them to agree. This call has been in the book for many years, and it was a POE about 15 years ago too. The problem that I personally have with this call is that it just isn't called uniformly. And probably never will be. Some officials might say that it's a POE now and I'm gonna call it; other officials will say that it's a cheap T and I'm just gonna warn people for it. Now maybe we partner these people up and what do we end up getting? Yup- pissed-off coaches and players because they really don't know what to expect. How do we change this and get the uniformity on this call that we need? Hell, I don't know. I can stand up at a meeting and say "Guys, we ARE gonna call it this way!". Everybody nods their heads up and down like they're freaking bobblehead dolls, but then they're also gonna go out and call the play the way that they personally think that it should be called anyway. Hand-checking is the same type of problem too. Some call it tight; some call it loose; some warn and never call it. Evaluators then pull their hair out.
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Old Wed Sep 08, 2004, 09:46pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
The problem that I personally have with this call is that it just isn't called uniformly.
The problem that I personally have with it is that it just seems like too harsh of a penalty for falling down. If everybody decides that's the way we're gonna call it, I guess that's just what I'll have to do, but it seems like too much to me.
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Old Wed Sep 08, 2004, 10:14pm
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There is thread going on the NFHS Discussion Board concerning "faking being fouled" or "flopping" as some would call it. Jurassic Referee and Chuck both make excellent points, even though I would say to Chuck that NFHS R4-S19-A13 and R10-S3-A7 define "faking being fouled" as an unsporting technical foul.

But I would like to add one more thing concerning the situation being discussed and that is one should not confuse a player bailing out too soon because he/she really thinks that he/she is going to be run over by an out of control opponent with the "faking/flopping" that is discussed in this thread.

As a Moderator in the Basketball Forum I probably should not be posting the URL of another discussion board, but since it is the NFHS Board itself here it is if anybody would like to read it. (There is one lenghty and insightful post in it and if I knew how to put a little "winking face" in this spot right now I would. But I think I just broke my arm trying to pat myself on the back.)

URL: http://www.nfhs.org/scriptcontent/va...;f=11;t=000476

And Chuck if you do read the NFHS thread do feel free to make comments about my books being in the attic. Have a good evening ladies and gentlemen.

MTD, Sr.


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Old Wed Sep 08, 2004, 10:33pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
I would say to Chuck that NFHS R4-S19-A13 and R10-S3-A7 define "faking being fouled" as an unsporting technical foul.
Yup, you're right about that, of course, Mark. And I even knew it before you posted the references. I guess I just don't see it as all that unsporting. I mean, if that's unsporting, is it unsporting when a kid makes his lay-up and then motions to you that he got hit on the arm? Isn't it the same thing? Trying to get you to call a foul on a guy who doesn't deserve it? It just seems too harsh.

Quote:
And Chuck if you do read the NFHS thread do feel free to make comments about my books being in the attic.
It's not the books up there that I get a kick out of, Mark. It's the briefcases. Not briefcase, mind you. Briefcases. Kills me.
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Old Thu Sep 09, 2004, 11:03am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BushRef
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
As a Moderator in the Basketball Forum I probably should not be posting the URL of another discussion board, but since it is the NFHS Board itself here it is if anybody would like to read it.

And Chuck if you do read the NFHS thread do feel free to make comments about my books being in the attic. Have a good evening ladies and gentlemen.

MTD, Sr.


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Old Thu Sep 09, 2004, 12:14pm
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At camp this summer the head of our state association talked about giving the T for "flopping". He wanted us to make sure there was a call when bodies were falling in the lane, either a block or charge, and if there's not contact, call the T. More than a few eyebrows went up at that meeting. I've never even heard of anyone making that call. I agree that it seems a little harsh, but if that's the way the rulesbook wants it called, that's the way we should be calling it. Coaches are really going to have to change the way they teach if we are really going to crack down on this.
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Old Thu Sep 09, 2004, 12:54pm
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At our camp, Ronnie Gerrard of the rules committe told us, Warn once then start calling. When you warn the player, warn the coach as well. Just as you run by him, tell him #32 is floppying, I see it again and I call the T. The message needs to get to the coaches that they need to quit teaching this technique.
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