Travel Question

[ref18]

A1 jumps into the air to try for goal. Seeing it may be blocked, A1 voluntarily drops the ball to the floor. A1 is the first to touch the ball after it hits the floor.

Travel? Yes or No?

[Adam]

Yes.

[kbilla]

Agreed this is a violation, but does it matter whether or not A1 had ended a dribble before attempting the shot in terms of whether or not it is a travel or double dribble?

Assuming they had not yet dribbled and they jump and then decide to drop the ball, as soon as they recover it is a travel for starting the dribble w/ the pivot foot off the floor.

If they had dribbled, ended the dribble, gone up for a shot and then dropped the ball and recovered, do you then have a travel or is that a double dribble?

I have actually seen that called both ways, usually nobody cares because you have a whistle....but any officials watching should care...

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Agreed this is a violation, but does it matter whether or not A1 had ended a dribble before attempting the shot in terms of whether or not it is a travel or double dribble?

Did his pivot foot leave the ground before he let go of the ball? yes? THen he can't dribble.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Did his pivot foot leave the ground before he let go of the ball? yes? THen he can't dribble.

Right I agree with you, all I'm saying is that if he had already dribbled before he attempted the shot, then he "dropped", aka "pushed to the floor", aka "dribbled" the ball again, then you also have a double dribble (meaning he didn't fumble it which he could have recovered)....since you don't have the travel until he recovers the ball, don't you really have both a travel and double dribble at the same time?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Right I agree with you, all I'm saying is that if he had already dribbled before he attempted the shot, then he "dropped", aka "pushed to the floor", aka "dribbled" the ball again, then you also have a double dribble (meaning he didn't fumble it which he could have recovered)....since you don't have the travel until he recovers the ball, don't you really have both a travel and double dribble at the same time?

Who cares?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Right I agree with you, all I'm saying is that if he had already dribbled before he attempted the shot, then he "dropped", aka "pushed to the floor", aka "dribbled" the ball again, then you also have a double dribble (meaning he didn't fumble it which he could have recovered)....since you don't have the travel until he recovers the ball, don't you really have both a travel and double dribble at the same time?

Technically, it's a travel. The dribble may not even be started, let alone illegally, once the pivot foot is raised. The travel happens before he even touches the ball.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Who cares?

Not me, but someone who may be evaluating you may care....

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Technically, it's a travel. The dribble may not even be started, let alone illegally, once the pivot foot is raised. The travel happens before he even touches the ball.

But you aren't signalling the violation until he recovers/touches it are you? Honestly though, this is the line of reasoning that I would use as well - that he can't technically dribble, therefore it must be a travel....just playing devil's advocate since like I said I have seen it called both....

[Adam]

It's like the player who jumps to shoot, doesn't release the ball, and lands out of bounds.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It's like the player who jumps to shoot, doesn't release the ball, and lands out of bounds.

Good call...so the player would be out of bounds and would have traveled...I guess as long as you get one of them you are good...

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Technically, it's a travel. The dribble may not even be started, let alone illegally, once the pivot foot is raised. The travel happens before he even touches the ball.

This is what I tried to say on another famous thread. But almost everybody else said that it was not a dribble unless he touches it again.

"It could have been a pass."

What if there was nobody there to receive this "pass" ??

I forget the answers to this, but there was not one that I found convincing.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by just another ref

This is what I tried to say on another famous thread. But almost everybody else said that it was not a dribble unless he touches it again.

"It could have been a pass."

What if there was nobody there to receive this "pass" ??

I forget the answers to this, but there was not one that I found convincing.

So then you are calling a travel as soon as the ball is dropped to the floor? It is an interesting point since the definition of a dribble does not include the secondary "touching" of the ball, only the "pushing to the floor, etc, etc".....that being said, I don't recall ever having seen the call made until there is a secondary touch....I know I have never called it until the secondary touch. You always get the situation where they drop it and then attempt some half-a** "boxout" of the defender so a teammate can recover...I have called that foul before, but never a travel at that point....

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by kbilla

So then you are calling a travel as soon as the ball is dropped to the floor? It is an interesting point since the definition of a dribble does not include the secondary "touching" of the ball, only the "pushing to the floor, etc, etc".....that being said, I don't recall ever having seen the call made until there is a secondary touch....I know I have never called it until the secondary touch. You always get the situation where they drop it and then attempt some half-a** "boxout" of the defender so a teammate can recover...I have called that foul before, but never a travel at that point....

What we argued about before was when a player made a head fake or whatever, then pushed the ball to the floor to start a move to the basket, then remembered that he had already used his dribble. The drop, to me, would be more difficult to make a blanket recommendation about without seeing it. Dropping the ball to the floor is not a normal way to start either a dribble or a pass. If there is a teammate nearby who has a chance to retrieve this "pass," I say let them have a chance to do so. If there is no such teammate with such a chance, I have no problem if the travel is called when the ball is released.

[Rizzo21]

What if A1 leaves his feet and he loses the ball, B1 touches the ball and A1 catches the ball then lands with both feet? Would the answer be different if A1 was shooting the ball during this process? Thanks...