Violation or play on?

[Johnny Ringo]

A1 has not dribbled. A1 goes to make an over-the-head- two-handed pass that slips out or he was trying to pull back, however the ball slips and falls out of his hands he takes a couple of steps and picks this up? Legal action?

if so, can he dribble?

if not, what's the call?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

A1 has not dribbled. A1 goes to make an over-the-head- two-handed pass that slips out or he was trying to pull back, however the ball slips and falls out of his hands he takes a couple of steps and picks this up? Legal action?

if so, can he dribble?

if not, what's the call?

Legal as long as you judge it an unintentional fumble, and if the ball did not hit the ground he can still dribble.

[Johnny Ringo]

The ball did hit the ground and he picked up ... therefore legal and he can't dribble?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

The ball did hit the ground and he picked up ... therefore legal and he can't dribble?

Yep.

[Scooby]

What you described is a fumble, as long as you determined that it was not intentional. After the ball hits the ground the player can gain control and still has the right to dribble.

[Johnny Ringo]

One of you says the player can't dribble and the other says he can?

It certainly was not an intentional act and indeed was a fumble.

[RookieDude]

Here's a little ditty(sp) I use...


"You can fumble dribble fumble...but you can't dribble fumble dribble."

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Yep.

You are incorrect. In that scenario he CAN dribble. See 4.15 and 4.21. He did not dribble by definition. He fumbled the ball.

[Nevadaref]

Johnny Ringo, you have stated that the ball slipped from the players grasp. He did not intentionally release the ball. Therefore, it is a fumble and he can go retrieve it without violating. It doesn't matter if the ball hits the floor or not. He can move his pivot foot and go get it. That's legal. Since it was a fumble and not an intentional controlled act, the player may still dribble after collecting the ball.

Now if the player purposely releases the ball, then the official must determine whether the action meets the requirements of a legal dribble or pass (needs to be touched by another player). The following NFHS interp is governing here:

2003-04 NFHS BASKETBALL RULES INTERPRETATIONS
SITUATION 6: A1 jumps from the floor and secures a defensive re-bound. A1 then pivots toward the sideline where a teammate, A2, is standing for an outlet pass. Just as A1 releases the pass, A2 turns and runs down the court. A1 throws a soft bounce pass to where A2 was standing. A1 then moves and secures the ball without dribbling. RULING: Legal action. A1 had the pivot foot on the floor and began a dribble by throwing the ball to the floor (the bounce pass); the dribble ended when A1 secured the ball. Upon reaching the ball, A1 also could have continued the dribble. (4-15-3,4)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Now if the player purposely releases the ball, then the official must determine whether the action meets the requirements of a legal dribble or pass (needs to be touched by another player).

Huh?

All the official needs to determine is whether the ball touches the floor (and that was clarified earlier in the thread). If the ball touches the floor, it's a dribble when A1 retouches the ball.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Huh?

All the official needs to determine is whether the ball touches the floor (and that was clarified earlier in the thread). If the ball touches the floor, it's a dribble when A1 retouches the ball.

Yep, that is one of the requirements of a legal dribble. As opposed to the player moving his pivot and catching the ball out of the air. That's an illegal dribble. The other one is that the ball must be released before the pivot foot is lifted. If not, that would be traveling.

Also the official must consider whether this was a second dribble.

Nothing earth-shattering, but that's what I was talking about, bob.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Huh?

All the official needs to determine is whether the ball touches the floor (and that was clarified earlier in the thread). If the ball touches the floor, it's a dribble when A1 retouches the ball.

So help me out here. If A1 receives a pass, is looking for someone to pass to, and the ball slips from his hand and bounces twice 5 feet away. He takes three steps and recovers the fumble with both hands. Are you saying that he can or cannot begin a dribble at that point?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Ralph

So help me out here. If A1 receives a pass, is looking for someone to pass to, and the ball slips from his hand and bounces twice 5 feet away. He takes three steps and recovers the fumble with both hands. Are you saying that he can or cannot begin a dribble at that point?

In the scenario which you have just described the player is permitted to dribble without penalty.

Don't get confused by bob j's post. He was responding to my setup which had the player purposely releasing the ball rather than it slipping from his grasp. In that case, if the ball hit the floor and then he retreived it, that would constitute his dribble and he would not be permitted another one.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

In the scenario which you have just described the player is permitted to dribble without penalty.

Don't get confused by bob j's post. He was responding to my setup which had the player purposely releasing the ball rather than it slipping from his grasp. In that case, if the ball hit the floor and then he retreived it, that would constitute his dribble and he would not be permitted another one.

Ok. Whew. Was going to have an aneurism.....