NC and Davidson game last night

[kdays78]

Last night in the 1st half Lawson was called for his 2nd foul on NC for a push in the back I thought it was the wrong player and so did the coach so the officials had a discussion and then they changed the foul to another player. Then later on it was reviewed again and it was changed back to Lawson. Is that a reviewable call? It is not a correctable error is it? I always thought that was pretty cut and dry. It was a great game to watch as I thought overall the officials called the game tight which is the way it should be to set the tone for the season.

[Scrapper1]

I have to admit that monitor rules are not my strong suit, but I believe you are correct. It is not permissible to use the monitor to determine who committed a foul; it is permissible to use the monitor to determine who was fouled (to determine who should shoot free throws).

My NCAA book is not with me, but I will check later today.

[CLH]

No, you cannot review use the monitor to see who fouled. I'm reading directly from the Monitor Use Guidelines I received at the NCAA meeting. The only thing the monitor can be used for in determining fouls, is the the men can use it to determine if a flagrant foul occured.

Sounds like they kicked this one or is possible you didn't get all the information about the situation. Although, I'm 100% sure the commentators made the whole thing VERY clear, and gave some very insightful opinions on the situation at hand.

CLH

NCAA 2-13.5: The officials shall not use such available equipment [courtside monitors] for judgment calls such as:
a. Determine who committed a foul or whether a foul occurred. Exception: (Men) flagrant foul.

b. Determine whether BI or goaltending occurred.

c. Determine whether a violation occurred.

d. Whether the ball was released before the sounding of the shot-clock horn, except as in 2-13.3b

[fullor30]

Interesting. Regarding correctable errors, in NFHS rules could I report foul erroneously, then change number later in game( don't know if first dead ball comes into play) A) then again change number B) change number knowing B2 did not commit foul without knowledge of who did, therefore give just a team foul?


I'm going to say yes as it would be similar to miscommunication with scorer's table on a 3 or 2 goal.

[Adam]

No. If you report it one way, that's it. It's not correctable. If you report it correctly and the scorer hears you wrong, that's a scorer's error and it's correctable until the game is completed.

[jeffpea]

Gary Maxwell made the foul call on UNC #5 Ty Lawson for the push in the back of Davidson player. They did not call the foul on UNC #22 Wayne Ellington who made contact w/ the shooter in front of the rim. Coach Williams asked Zelton Steed to check w/ Maxwell because UNC felt it was on #22. (If you saw the game, you saw Steed have a short conference w/ Maxwell and the TV cameras caught Maxwell saying "it was #5 w/ a push from behind").

Regardless of the confusion by the UNC bench or the official scorer, at no time did they go to the monitor to check who the foul was on. Maxwell reported the foul on UNC #5 and remained consistent on that during the discussion.

Keep in mind that the game annoucers/TV crew do not always relay the accurate info. during the broadcast (how many times do they screw up a rule interpretation...almost every game!). They, as well as the official scorer may have done in this instance, oftentimes assume who the foul is on when contact occurs amongst a group of players.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

No. If you report it one way, that's it. It's not correctable. If you report it correctly and the scorer hears you wrong, that's a scorer's error and it's correctable until the game is completed.

I don't agree with your take on this. I do agree that it is not one of the five correctable errors, so a timeframe does not apply.

My opinion is that the reporting and recording of fouls is entirely within the bookkeeping realm and such a mistake can be corrected at any time during the game. If for any reason an official reports a foul on the wrong player that can and should be fixed with definite knowledge. It is not right to screw someone over because an official got confused. Perhaps the official reported the number of the player who got fouled instead of the one who committed the foul. When that is realized, it needs to be fixed. Your statement does not allow for that.

[Adam]

I'd like to see that allowed, I just don't see it in the rules. Part of the call is stating who the foul is on, I don't see where or how we can count that as a scoring error.

It's like a three point shot. If the official signals three and changes his mind, there's a limited time frame on when it can be corrected; but it can be corrected because the rule allows for it.

"Who fouled" is not correctable, IMO.

[Nevadaref]

I know that we've discussed this before on this forum and there is clearly merit on both sides. I would welcome a clarification from the NFHS on the issue.

[Adam]

agreed.

[Camron Rust]

You're both wrong!!!

[BktBallRef]

I guess I'm wrong too because if I realize I reported the wrong number, I'm gonna change it.

Maxwell actually did call the foul on Lawson from the git-go but the better call would have been on Ellington. He had a hand touching the shooter's back but there wasn't much of a push. Oh well.

[rainmaker]

Seems to me it's a difference whether the ref intends to call it on one person (ie saw the play correctly) but just reported it incorrectly, or whether the ref really actually called it on the wrong person. If I reported it wrong, I can fix it, but if I called it on the wrong person it's not correctable or fixable.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Seems to me it's a difference whether the ref intends to call it on one person (ie saw the play correctly) but just reported it incorrectly, or whether the ref really actually called it on the wrong person. If I reported it wrong, I can fix it, but if I called it on the wrong person it's not correctable or fixable.

What if your partner informs you that you have penalized the wrong player?